Lighting tips, tricks and questions💥👍💥👍.... !😉

[Venutus1]

This is a thread where you can ask and get SPECIFIC LIGHTING ANSWERS and TIPS you may be looking for..... made EASY!

I was discussing with Mod Tom and we talked about how confusing lighting can be!

In part because there are so many species of tortoise in so many differnt types and sizes of set ups.

All these variables make asking for and getting the correct information SO CONFUSING!

No wonder why everyone gets confused and heads explode!
LOL

🐢 + 💡=💥🤯💥

So...
This is Lighting Made Easy!

But,
here is the catch!
So you get the correct advice for your particular set up and animals
PLEASE post a picture of your set up along with your question(s).
More pics the better!
👍
And SHOW US what you are working with and what you currently have for lighting equipment!

That way, advice can be TARGETED TO YOUR SET UP!



Now,
If you are "post shy" 😔
and do not want to put up a picture, but are still in need of help....
You can simply e-mail me a pic of your set up to me at: [email protected]
Please put: "Need Tortoise lighting advice " in the subject line so I will be able to see it quickly!
I usually respond in 24 hours or less.

OR

Post here and please include a few pictures!

PLEASE:
Describe set up
Type of tortoise you have and how big the animal is.
Cage dimentions / size
What do you have specifically for lights running now?
How far are the lights over TOP OF the animal's SHELL to bulb(s).

Even if you don't put up a post here or feel you need any lighting help...
PLEASE feel free to look through the posts & pics to see SET UPS SIMILAR TO YOUR OWN!

Let's get the correct UVB and lighting over tortoises EVERYWHERE!

So that they will stay HEALTHY and free of Metabolic Bone Disease and horrible, debilitating calcium imbalances!

Feel free to link and share this tread to all tortoise lovers!

I personally will check this thread every evening...
but anyone can also respond to posts & advice or share products that have worked for them!

Cheers,
Todd

lightyourreptiles.com

 

[wellington]

Small correction. I don't want Tom getting bombarded with requests for his Mod powers as he doesn't have any. He is not a Mod.

 

[Venutus1]

Got it!
been out of the loop (any loop!) for a while. 😁

Cheers!
Todd

 

[Tom]

Thank you for posting this! Here is my standard lighting breakdown that I post for people who are having trouble figuring out all the conflicting info they've found. I think it suits most housing situations for most tortoises.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

What are your thoughts? I've tried to keep it basic and simple, but people can obviously fine tune from this starting point for their own individual set ups.

 

[Venutus1]

Hi Tom!

Yes.... that makes all total sense.

You are lucky to be in So. Cal. so that they can go outside!

I forget.... but what types of Tortoise do you have?

I think I used to know, but I am old and forgot! 🥺

"I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb."
I love this tip!
It also works inside and on tortoise tables.

Flat dark slate walkway stones / slabs available at HDepot / Lowes or garden stores are a must have!

That way the flat slate can heat up and radiate heat --- warm from underneath,
as well as the sun on "top".

Cheers!
Todd

 

[Venutus1]

Oh Tom....

I don't suppose you could post a pic of your indoor set up, or a visual example.
?

Plus. I would like to see what you have.😁🐢

Don't ask me to post a pic... because right now I do not have any tortoises!

I know, I know,
ha ha
I am dispensing advice "tortoise-less"!

(But I AM at my most objective now.)

Sadly,
getting old and have had some life threatening bouts of poor health.

And my partner passed away after an intense battle with cancer 1.5 years ago.....

So ....
I unfortunatly had to pare down bit by bit
on almost all of everything live over the 10 past years.

BUT

I am just getting back into the swing of things.
Or at least trying to.

And I am targeting the areas I see the greatest need of info in.

Hence working on developing better lighting products and their applications.

You never know....
Maybe 20 or 30 years from now ....
someone will be looking at their 40 or 50 year old tortoise remembering some good advice or help that character "Todd Goode" gave them "back in the day".
ha ha

Cheers,
Todd!

 

[TortCrush]

Thank you for posting this! Here is my standard lighting breakdown that I post for people who are having trouble figuring out all the conflicting info they've found. I think it suits most housing situations for most tortoises.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

What are your thoughts? I've tried to keep it basic and simple, but people can obviously fine tune from this starting point for their own individual set ups.

This is a thread where you can ask and get SPECIFIC LIGHTING ANSWERS and TIPS you may be looking for..... made EASY!

I was discussing with Mod Tom and we talked about how confusing lighting can be!

In part because there are so many species of tortoise in so many differnt types and sizes of set ups.

All these variables make asking for and getting the correct information SO CONFUSING!

No wonder why everyone gets confused and heads explode!
LOL

🐢 + 💡=💥🤯💥

So...
This is Lighting Made Easy!

But,
here is the catch!
So you get the correct advice for your particular set up and animals
PLEASE post a picture of your set up along with your question(s).
More pics the better!
👍
And SHOW US what you are working with and what you currently have for lighting equipment!

That way, advice can be TARGETED TO YOUR SET UP!



Now,
If you are "post shy" 😔
and do not want to put up a picture, but are still in need of help....
You can simply e-mail me a pic of your set up to me at: [email protected]
Please put: "Need Tortoise lighting advice " in the subject line so I will be able to see it quickly!
I usually respond in 24 hours or less.

OR

Post here and please include a few pictures!

PLEASE:
Describe set up
Type of tortoise you have and how big the animal is.
Cage dimentions / size
What do you have specifically for lights running now?
How far are the lights over TOP OF the animal's SHELL to bulb(s).

Even if you don't put up a post here or feel you need any lighting help...
PLEASE feel free to look through the posts & pics to see SET UPS SIMILAR TO YOUR OWN!

Let's get the correct UVB and lighting over tortoises EVERYWHERE!

So that they will stay HEALTHY and free of Metabolic Bone Disease and horrible, debilitating calcium imbalances!

Feel free to link and share this tread to all tortoise lovers!

I personally will check this thread every evening...
but anyone can also respond to posts & advice or share products that have worked for them!

Cheers,
Todd

lightyourreptiles.com

For those interested in more details on what UV light is and why reptiles need it: Herpetological Journal Roundtable on UV

 

[Venutus1]

Read away and digest it all!

I am not being jerky...

But stuff like that provides little in the way of practical help to advise an average 15 year old (like my neighbor)
to correctly light their baby sulcatta in a 50 gal. breeder tank.

Do they have the light sitting on a screen to keep the cat out?
If yes.. How dense is the screen in blocking down the light?
How old is the bulb?
Do they ample shade and a useable hide box?
Should 2 basking areas be given*?
Is the set up large enough to allow that?
One with UVB and one with low low uvb? or no UVB?
Because did one ever consider that the tortoise may just need to warm up with out allot of UV to digest a meal without having to be FORCED to OVER-UV itself under like a Mercury Vapor bulb? (another variable in captivity.)
(The correct application focusing on the use of only Merc vapor bulbs is tricky ... to down right AWFUL...but that is a whole thread on its own.)

Advice can not be correctly dispensed unless the advisor can see or know exactly what the person needing the advice is working with.
(or at least know all the details in writing, but again, a pic or two is worth a thousand words over like a 3 page essay on what all is involved in the set up).

Do you know that many (not all) veterinarians
are the worst folks to get advice from as far as the practical application of UV in a particular set up?

One vet, Dr. Baines, is the worlds BEST person / veterinarian to get advice from.
She is at the top of the pinnacle.

It is just that many vets are NOT familiar with THE PRODUCTS NEEDED to acheive the end result of properly lighting and UV-ing the animal in situ.

Cheers.
Lively stuff the topic of UV is! 👍
Gotta run and do some work, but I will check this thread back tonight.
Thank you.
Todd

 

[Tom]

Read away and digest it all!

I am not being jerky...

But stuff like that provides little in the way of practical help to advise an average 15 year old (like my neighbor)
to correctly light their baby sulcatta in a 50 gal. breeder tank.

Do they have the light sitting on a screen to keep the cat out?
If yes.. How dense is the screen in blocking down the light?
How old is the bulb?
Do they ample shade and a useable hide box?
Should 2 basking areas be given*?
Is the set up large enough to allow that?
One with UVB and one with low low uvb? or no UVB?
Because did one ever consider that the tortoise may just need to warm up with out allot of UV to digest a meal without having to be FORCED to OVER-UV itself under like a Mercury Vapor bulb? (another variable in captivity.)
(The correct application focusing on the use of only Merc vapor bulbs is tricky ... to down right AWFUL...but that is a whole thread on its own.)

Advice can not be correctly dispensed unless the advisor can see or know exactly what the person needing the advice is working with.
(or at least know all the details in writing, but again, a pic or two is worth a thousand words over like a 3 page essay on what all is involved in the set up).

Do you know that many (not all) veterinarians
are the worst folks to get advice from as far as the practical application of UV in a particular set up?

One vet, Dr. Baines, is the worlds BEST person / veterinarian to get advice from.
She is at the top of the pinnacle.

It is just that many vets are NOT familiar with THE PRODUCTS NEEDED to acheive the end result of properly lighting and UV-ing the animal in situ.

Cheers.
Lively stuff the topic of UV is! 👍
Gotta run and do some work, but I will check this thread back tonight.
Thank you.
Todd

I'm so glad to hear that someone of your knowledge and experience sees it the same way I see it. Good info in this post. I agree with your assessments and assertions.

 

[TortCrush]

Hey, Todd, I am assuming that you are replying to the information provided by the roundtable discussion. I don't think you are being jerky. All feedback is excellent, even sources you do not particularly believe in.

I'm not sure that all of the commentators are vets and I am not sure that many vets are the worst. Some are zoological society members responsible for keeping reptiles in zoos (kind of similar to a home setting where you wish to be close and observe the animal but in a somewhat artificial environment). Personally, I found the article very helpful in clearing up a lot of misconceptions on the UV spectrum (as opposed to the UV index), but it's definitely only for those wanting to learn more. Not sure of the objections to mercury vapor because of "over UVing". The same could be said for using any UV light which also provides heat, not just MV. Personally, in our situation, we perfer to separate the two bulbs (bask and UV) which allows us to move the UV bulb away from the bask area to whatever level is appropriate.

I agree that Dr. Baines has excellent information on her websites:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/usinguvmeter.htm
as well as the solarmeter website:
https://www.solarmeter.com/links/

We found all three sites very helpful when we had our ballast problem and would encourage anyone with UV questions to definitely read away and digest it all.

Cheers to you as well and thank you for your feedback.

 

[Venutus1]

"Personally, in our situation, we perfer to separate the two bulbs (bask and UV) which allows us to move the UV bulb away from the bask area to whatever level is appropriate."

I AGREE whole heartedly. 👍

I was not bashing vets ... but over the past many years ...
I have tried to help folks and advise them....
only to have the folks not listen to me
and go what "what the vet told them".
God love them, they are their animals untimatly they can do as they please.

But I hate to see animal suffer or stay in a perpetual chronic state of poor health due to easily fixable husbandy issues.

"Perpetual chronic state of poor health"
is sadly the day to day norm of a huge percentage of captive reptiles out there.

But quite a few times.... the vets advice was not practical or just plain WRONG.

And due to my quirky nature, 🤨😉
I wanted to explain why what I was telling them was important too ... or even made more sense
OR
doing such and such was better ....
But they just wanted to NOT fix their husbandry and get the vit D shots or whatever.

This has happened to me many times over the past bazillion years.

So I get easily triggered (LOL) that way.😱
You can "treat" all you want... by why not FIX the problem in the first place?

Sure their animal needed the vit and calcium... or whatever.... the vet was prescibing..
BUT
one needs to fix the root of the problem and correct the lighting in their husbandry.

( I used to own 2 brick and mortar pet shops in the 80's and into the 90's too... and this became a sore subject.)

(Should I let go of the past ? ha ha )

Cheers
Todd

 

[fernando7kose]

Hi all, I have a quick question about bulb for basking spot.

I really couldn't find any "regular incadescent flood bulb" in my country. What available is only reptile spot bulb.

I have made sure that these are incadescent bulbs, buy it doesn't say whether it's spot/flood/PAR/BR.
Would any of these be okay? I guess the frosted ones would be better?

Thank you!

 

[Venutus1]

Hi Fernando,

Those standard lightbulbs will work ,

but they really do not project much of the heat and light downward.

It will take a crazy high wattage one of those bulbs to get the heat down to the animal.

(= Electric Bill $$$$$)

Because 90% of the heat will be rising up and off into the air above.

So....

They really must be used in a dome light fixture to "aim" the heat & light downward.

You could use one of those in a dome light. You would want probably 100w one up about 12" / 30 - 35 cm off the top of the animals shell, TEST carefully with thermometer to make sure temps are correct and spread out to warm the whole animal evenly. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

IF all you can get is 60w, then you will need MORE than one weeny one in a dome to heat the animal. You mnay need two domes side by side. 3+ if it is a large tortoise.


If you have a home depot or hardware store anywhere, ask them for an outside FLOOD LIGHT for out door lighting.

BUT in some countries,
they now have made higher wattage incandescent bulbs illegal because there are much more energy efficient lighting options for people.

Again, for new readers:
The reason why SPOT light bulbs are so tricky is because they concentate the heat (and light) in too small an area on the animals back and can be very bad if they are too close. (and most folks don't realize this and they DO PLACE THEM TOO CLOSE. The "pyramid" of light and heat coming from the bulb should create a LARGE ENOUGH foot-print to heat the animals whole body EVENLY. 😊👍🏼

IF you use a FEW spotlight bulbs FAR AWAY (20" /60 cm+ depending on bulb) to create a LARGE heat / light foot print,
then they will work.
But it will take allot of electricity to PROJECT the heat down to the animal ....and more than one bulb. Probaly 3 ... to heat the whole basking area.

The FLOOD style bulbs broadcast a much wider beam of light and heat downward.
Thus, when used correctly at the correct distance, they do not create a super dangerous HOT SPOT on the topm of the animals carapace.

Could you contact your best local pet shop and see if they have any Arcadia 100w basking bulbs? Those are good.

Best of luck!
Cheers, Todd

 

[Tom]

Hi Fernando,

Those standard lightbulbs will work ,

but they really do not project much of the heat and light downward.

It will take a crazy high wattage one of those bulbs to get the heat down to the animal.

(= Electric Bill $$$$$)

Because 90% of the heat will be rising up and off into the air above.

So....

They really must be used in a dome light fixture to "aim" the heat & light downward.

You could use one of those in a dome light. You would want probably 100w one up about 12" / 30 - 35 cm off the top of the animals shell, TEST carefully with thermometer to make sure temps are correct and spread out to warm the whole animal evenly. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

IF all you can get is 60w, then you will need MORE than one weeny one in a dome to heat the animal. You mnay need two domes side by side. 3+ if it is a large tortoise.


If you have a home depot or hardware store anywhere, ask them for an outside FLOOD LIGHT for out door lighting.

BUT in some countries,
they now have made higher wattage incandescent bulbs illegal because there are much more energy efficient lighting options for people.

Again, for new readers:
The reason why SPOT light bulbs are so tricky is because they concentate the heat (and light) in too small an area on the animals back and can be very bad if they are too close. (and most folks don't realize this and they DO PLACE THEM TOO CLOSE. The "pyramid" of light and heat coming from the bulb should create a LARGE ENOUGH foot-print to heat the animals whole body EVENLY. 😊👍🏼

IF you use a FEW spotlight bulbs FAR AWAY (20" /60 cm+ depending on bulb) to create a LARGE heat / light foot print,
then they will work.
But it will take allot of electricity to PROJECT the heat down to the animal ....and more than one bulb. Probaly 3 ... to heat the whole basking area.

The FLOOD style bulbs broadcast a much wider beam of light and heat downward.
Thus, when used correctly at the correct distance, they do not create a super dangerous HOT SPOT on the topm of the animals carapace.

Could you contact your best local pet shop and see if they have any Arcadia 100w basking bulbs? Those are good.

Best of luck!
Cheers, Todd

Its posts like this that make me wish I could "like" what you wrote a thousand times!!! VERY well worded and thank you for sharing this expertise with us Todd.

 

[fernando7kose]

Hi Fernando,

Those standard lightbulbs will work ,

but they really do not project much of the heat and light downward.

It will take a crazy high wattage one of those bulbs to get the heat down to the animal.

(= Electric Bill $$$$$)

Because 90% of the heat will be rising up and off into the air above.

So....

They really must be used in a dome light fixture to "aim" the heat & light downward.

You could use one of those in a dome light. You would want probably 100w one up about 12" / 30 - 35 cm off the top of the animals shell, TEST carefully with thermometer to make sure temps are correct and spread out to warm the whole animal evenly. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

IF all you can get is 60w, then you will need MORE than one weeny one in a dome to heat the animal. You mnay need two domes side by side. 3+ if it is a large tortoise.


If you have a home depot or hardware store anywhere, ask them for an outside FLOOD LIGHT for out door lighting.

BUT in some countries,
they now have made higher wattage incandescent bulbs illegal because there are much more energy efficient lighting options for people.

Again, for new readers:
The reason why SPOT light bulbs are so tricky is because they concentate the heat (and light) in too small an area on the animals back and can be very bad if they are too close. (and most folks don't realize this and they DO PLACE THEM TOO CLOSE. The "pyramid" of light and heat coming from the bulb should create a LARGE ENOUGH foot-print to heat the animals whole body EVENLY. 😊👍🏼

IF you use a FEW spotlight bulbs FAR AWAY (20" /60 cm+ depending on bulb) to create a LARGE heat / light foot print,
then they will work.
But it will take allot of electricity to PROJECT the heat down to the animal ....and more than one bulb. Probaly 3 ... to heat the whole basking area.

The FLOOD style bulbs broadcast a much wider beam of light and heat downward.
Thus, when used correctly at the correct distance, they do not create a super dangerous HOT SPOT on the topm of the animals carapace.

Could you contact your best local pet shop and see if they have any Arcadia 100w basking bulbs? Those are good.

Best of luck!
Cheers, Todd

Thank you so much Todd for the detailed explanation!
Yes I'm planning to use a dome, I'm currently using a 75W spot lamp with it. It's around 50cm above the ground and the temp is perfect.

Unfortunately the only pet shop that had the Arcadia bulb is out of stock for the time being. I managed to find the 100w regular bulb, I think I would give it a try!

 

[Yvonne G]

I wasn't aware that we had a lightyourreptiles.com person as a member here. Hi Todd! Even though you've been a member for a while I want to say again - WELCOME TO THE FORUM!! We're glad to have you as a member and a sponsor!!!

I've been slowly switching over my lighting on the indoor enclosures as $$ become available, and wanted to switch to the LED bulbs because of their brightness. But when I pull up my go to site online (Amazon) there are so many types of LED to choose from. I'd sure like someone to put up a picture here on this thread showing the type of LED advised.

 

[Venutus1]

Light / Heat pattern from 3 types of bulbs in a dome light.😊👍🏼

 

[Tom]

Light / Heat pattern from 3 types of bulbs in a dome light.😊👍🏼

I am SOOOOO stealing this. That chart is better than thousands of words trying to explain this, and the darn pet stores all sell those stupid "Intense Spot Bulbs" to everyone for basking. I don't want anything "intense" going on on my tortoise's carapace!

 

[Tom]

@Yvonne G This is the one I found at Walmart. I spent 20 minutes on Walmart.com and could not find it, but its on the shelves at two store near me in CA and also in Newnan Georgia. This one has one switch that gives you three "color" choices of lights, and another switch for high, low, or off. It has little tabs on the ends for very easy mounting too. You just plug it in and go. You can also string several of them together for larger enclosures with an included jumper cord. I'm using two of these in series in the canopy over my fish tank. You plug one into the wall, and then plug the other into the end of the first one.



I also use regular screw-in type LEDs in any regular light socket. I do this in the outdoor night boxes sometimes and in the indoor closed chambers too. I like the "globe" type to spread out the light evenly.

 

[Venutus1]

NOTE TO EVERYONE.

I don't want to break forum rules and sort of advertise per se'... 😈

so please don't slap me today.😬

But you all may find this MOST INTERESTING.😇

as we speak....
I am developing a:

1.
HO t5 Reptile fixture that takes 3 bulbs.

In 2ft, 3ft and 4 ft. models.

2.
This fixture can be
A.
HUNG over tortoise tables
B.
Mounted over / set on top or over tortoise cages
C.
Hung over LARGE tortoise floor pens.

3.
These can be loaded with Arcadia UV bulbs and will be
UV ADJUSTABLE / UV "Tune-able".

Examples:

Loading a 4ft fixture with 3 x Arcadia 14% bulbs could be hung up 22 to 30 inches over say a 4" x 8" tortoise pen and it will
BROADCAST UV & light over 60-70% of the square footage with 2 to 3 UVI (as measured on a solarmeter 6.5)
Great for Sulcatas.

OR....

Loading a small 2 foot fixture up with say 1 x 6% + 1 x 12%+ 1 x no UV full spectrum daylight bulb
could be set on / placed over a cage 14" or so inches above the animals.
Will also work on a small tortoise table.

And the cage will have enough OVERALL LIGHT ....
so the poor animals will not be
chronically DEPRESSED LIVING IN A TOO DIM ENVIRONMENT.🤯😬
It is a S-L-O-W KILLER!
(Think S.A.D. , seasonal affective disorder in humans from lack of sunlight = depressed pineal gland in brain.)

(Even forest tortoises need a bright patch of light,
simulating a bright shaft of sunlight through trees,
to bask in.)

AND it will have many other features.

They are being tested as we speak.

This is the first time these pics (OR ANY PICS of this product) have been shown on the internet.

THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE MID-DECEMBER.😁

below is a pic of one being prepared to be used over a tub with baby water turtles in it.
And a pic of a 4 foot fixture being UV tested showing hangers.

Sharing is caring. 🐢💖👍🏼
Thank you.
Todd