Lots of questions

[katieandiggy]

Hi all, newbie from the UK here. So glad I found this place!
I have a few questions and I hope I can get them all answered in one go so I can save the thread to refer to. Thanks to those that replied to my first post I really appreciate it.
Here goes:

(1)The tortoise I hope to buy is around 4-6 months old Russian tortoise. At present in the pet shop it is kept in a vivarium that is extremely humid, I mean water is running down the walls. It appears happy every time I go in there, it’s always munching on food. They have quite a turnaround of tortoises but they are all kept in the same way. I plan to keep mine in an open top table, I think to start I will use a large cement tub, I’ve seen some great ones on here, I will also be making a large outdoors enclosure for the summer days. My first question is, I’m worried about the change in humidity from an extremely humid environment to an open top table, it’s just the initial change I’m worried about... I think as it grows it will be fine just that initial change from vivarium to table. I’ve been given some great substrate advice, and I am going to keep it nice and damp but how can I make the hide more humid?

(2) can anybody recommend a dual heat/uvb light? There are so many types I really don’t know what is best.. I don’t want to be ripped off by a pet shop for something I can source myself online for half the price.

(3) how often do they urinate? Is it smelly? If I clean poop daily, how often will I need to clean the entire cage? I mean removing everything. Is there a safe disinfectant that can be used on the cage?

(4) could somebody send me a link for one of those thermometers that you point at an area.

(5) can I soak everyday initially? Will that help with the humidity? How about if I have it sprayed with warm water twice a day? Would that work..

(6) is there a thread on here that anybody is aware of with all of the plants/weeds that they can eat from the UK. You guys in the US have different names for things and I’m in awe of all of the edible weeds you know about. I have a garden full of weeds but no idea what they are!

I really really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out.

 

[Melis]

Welcome! Do you have a pic of the tort? Here in the US, pet stores usually tell people the Russians are a few months old when they are actually over 5 years old. I'm not sure if that's different in the U.K. Have you read the caresheets here? What size enclosure are you planning on building? Russians need a large size 4ftx8ft. Most recommend the long tube lights for uvb, not the coil type.

Perhaps @JoesMum can help with somewhere to buy the temp gun as well as info on plants and weeds.

 

[katieandiggy]

Hi thanks for your reply.

I don’t have a pic but I will take one next time I pop in the store. It’s very small though I would say maybe 2 inch’s ?

I was planning to have a cement tub/ rubbermaid tub initially, just for a few months while it’s small. I plan for it to spend lots of time outside in the summer too as my garden is lovely and warm and I hope to make an outside table area exactly this style but just a lot bigger. Again that is only for when it’s small. As it grows I will build something more permanent in my garden.

 

[DARKFIRE007]

Alright I will give this a shot, but it may be long winded lol. The humid hide, as far as I know just lightly pack it with Timothy hay, if the substrate is moist they will create humidity when they are in/under the hay.

Lighting can be pricey...but it is so important it is a bullet you just have to bite every 6 to 9 months. Go to LLLreptile.com or any other tort website and pick up an MVB bulb/ceramic fixture dome combo, they run between 30 and 50 bucks depending on the source but last at least half a year. By the way, MVB stands for mercury vapor bulb.

I am unaware of any safe disinfectant...so don't bother, no one else does that I know of. Their urine is a solid, not a liquid. It resembles toothpaste, scared me silly the first time I saw it. As long as it is moist and not dry the tort is fine. Sometimes they WILL put out liquid if they have had a lot of water intake though. As for cleaning up poop, just spot clean when you see it...TRUST me you will know when it is there, those bulbs are like an alarm system when heat hits poo.

You can NOT overdo soaking, even once a day. Keeps them hydrated and if your waterline is just below the chin, it will also drown any parasites on their exterior like mites. This may be a disputed opinion, but I say use a dab of Dawn in there once a week. It is used on wildlife far more fragile than a Russian with no issues....keep in mind this is for ADULT soaking. When small like yours they can drown in a very small amount of water, so be careful. Also hold off on Dawn until an adult.

As for watering/spraying....this took me time to figure out. those bulbs dry coco out VERY fast. I use coco coir for now, once expanded and set up you want to pour say 20 ounces of water a day in a thin line all over. Then follow that with a mist spray bottle. My coco has not gotten dry and dusty with that method. Should work with other moisture retaining substrates as well, just ease off on the amount if it is something like cypress.

And lastly, I am not a purist on the care sheet about 4x8 enclosures, if you are a foot or two short I think it is fine as long as you care for them well otherwise. But what I see in that pic is way to small. Anything below 3x7 in my opinion is harmful.

Any pet store or online vendor sales the zoomed thermometer...but I suggest getting one at Walmart, they sell ones that read the humidity too.

Food...three words, dark and leafy. Turnip greens, collard greens, mustard greens, kale, and so on. I also feed a very rare strawberry as a treat. AVOID lettuce, it has virtually no nutrients they need. It IS a good way to hydrate a dehydrated tort though...but so is just wetting the greens.

Don't forget a cuttle bone, a growing baby will need the calcium (assuming they even touch it, mine never do).

Hope that was at least somewhat helpful.

 

[katieandiggy]

Thank you so much for replying!

Wow I’ve learnt something else new!! I had no idea pee was solid!!!!! I think I assumed all pee was liquid for every animal. That’s crazy!

That picture of the enclosure is not the size I would be making. I was just meaning the same style using decking boards. I plan to make it around 4ft long by day 3 foot wide, this is just a temporary outdoor enclosure for up a year old, probably only lasting this summer. I have a patch of land in my garden that’s is around 10ft by 4ft that I plan to make into an awesome outdoor area, I just need to double check the sun, as it’s not the sunniest patch. It is half sun half shade and by around 2 in the afternoon it’s all shade. Eventually I hope once old enough it will have the entire run of my garden which is around 50ft by 50ft (I’m in the UK)

I have been reading like 4 hours per day on my travels too and from work. So much conflicting information! I know when I go to the pet shop they will tell me something different.

I bought a cheap humidity metre just to check the general humidity of my house and it runs at around 50-60% I took it in the bath with me lol and it did go up to 70-80% so I know it was working.

My indoor enclosure wow I’ve changed my mind soooo much. I did not want a vivarium I wanted an open table but I think I’m going to go with an inbetween. Because tort is going to be growing I did not want to make a permanent home initially. I think I’ve decided to go with either a rubbermaid style tub or a wooden frame lined with plastic and have it 1/2 to 3/4 wrapped. I think that still allows better air circulation than a viv but I can also get some humidity going up one end.

Lighting wise I’m going to go for separate uvb and heat. I may just use an ordinary household bulb for basking heat... am I assuming that is ok?
I will also have a CHE for the cool end while still a hatchling and I’m thinking around 80 degrees in the cool end? I will keep the CHE on all night too, from what I’m reading probably for the first year?

I’m also considering a reptile mister, and im thinking having it on for 30 min twice per day and with daily 30 min soaks. (My poor mum is going to have to do this as I’m at work)

I think in my head I’ve got this, but I’m still so nervous.

Katie

 

[TechnoCheese]

Alright I will give this a shot, but it may be long winded lol. The humid hide, as far as I know just lightly pack it with Timothy hay, if the substrate is moist they will create humidity when they are in/under the hay.

Lighting can be pricey...but it is so important it is a bullet you just have to bite every 6 to 9 months. Go to LLLreptile.com or any other tort website and pick up an MVB bulb/ceramic fixture dome combo, they run between 30 and 50 bucks depending on the source but last at least half a year. By the way, MVB stands for mercury vapor bulb.

I am unaware of any safe disinfectant...so don't bother, no one else does that I know of. Their urine is a solid, not a liquid. It resembles toothpaste, scared me silly the first time I saw it. As long as it is moist and not dry the tort is fine. Sometimes they WILL put out liquid if they have had a lot of water intake though. As for cleaning up poop, just spot clean when you see it...TRUST me you will know when it is there, those bulbs are like an alarm system when heat hits poo.

You can NOT overdo soaking, even once a day. Keeps them hydrated and if your waterline is just below the chin, it will also drown any parasites on their exterior like mites. This may be a disputed opinion, but I say use a dab of Dawn in there once a week. It is used on wildlife far more fragile than a Russian with no issues....keep in mind this is for ADULT soaking. When small like yours they can drown in a very small amount of water, so be careful. Also hold off on Dawn until an adult.

As for watering/spraying....this took me time to figure out. those bulbs dry coco out VERY fast. I use coco coir for now, once expanded and set up you want to pour say 20 ounces of water a day in a thin line all over. Then follow that with a mist spray bottle. My coco has not gotten dry and dusty with that method. Should work with other moisture retaining substrates as well, just ease off on the amount if it is something like cypress.

And lastly, I am not a purist on the care sheet about 4x8 enclosures, if you are a foot or two short I think it is fine as long as you care for them well otherwise. But what I see in that pic is way to small. Anything below 3x7 in my opinion is harmful.

Any pet store or online vendor sales the zoomed thermometer...but I suggest getting one at Walmart, they sell ones that read the humidity too.

Food...three words, dark and leafy. Turnip greens, collard greens, mustard greens, kale, and so on. I also feed a very rare strawberry as a treat. AVOID lettuce, it has virtually no nutrients they need. It IS a good way to hydrate a dehydrated tort though...but so is just wetting the greens.

Don't forget a cuttle bone, a growing baby will need the calcium (assuming they even touch it, mine never do).

Hope that was at least somewhat helpful.

I wouldn’t put hay in the humid hide, because it molds. All you need to do is wet the substrate more underneath.
I personally don’t recommend MVBs, because they’re very desiccating on the shells and dry them out too much, and have a tendency to stop producing uvb after only 3 months or so without indication, because it still produces heat and light. I would use a reptisun 10.0 fluorescent tube with a T8 hood, mounted 10-12 inches from the substrate.

 

[katieandiggy]

I wouldn’t put hay in the humid hide, because it molds. All you need to do is wet the substrate more underneath.
I personally don’t recommend MVBs, because they’re very desiccating on the shells and dry them out too much, and have a tendency to stop producing uvb after only 3 months or so without indication, because it still produces heat and light. I would use a reptisun 10.0 fluorescent tube with a T8 hood, mounted 10-12 inches from the substrate.

Technocheese- thank you. I know hay can mould easily as I have horses and quite often I open the bale and it’s gross!

Am I right in thinking that I can use a normal household bulb for heat? Or does it have any adverse effect on the shell?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Technocheese- thank you. I know hay can mould easily as I have horses and quite often I open the bale and it’s gross!

Am I right in thinking that I can use a normal household bulb for heat? Or does it have any adverse effect on the shell?

You can, actually, but make sure that they’re these- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips...-Light-Bulb-12-Pack-per-Case-248872/100560688

 

[DARKFIRE007]

Did not know about mold issues with the hay...personally I just make sure the substrate is moist, so that stops ME from making a mistake in the future. As for MVB bulbs, I have seen nothing bad yet, but I agree the 10.0 uvb is a better option since you KNOW UVB is being produced.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Laser heat gun:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...b-0822-4044-bbe9-441718232b3f&pf_rd_i=desktop

List of weeds in the UK: http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/site/Edible_Weeds.html.

Shelled Warriors also has seed mixes.

This site lists other common plants that can be fed: http://www.tortoiselady.co.uk/page6.htm. Shehas a list of unsuitable foods as well.

 

[katieandiggy]

Thanks rosemary. That list of weeds is fantastic.