Male and female, or just different?

[Oxman]

Hello, i have owned one of my two sulcatas for close to a year, which i believe to be female and just recently got another juvinile so the size difference was minimal. On tort -the newer smaller oneto the right- has some difference in the rear and front scutes. The rear areturned up and are almost touching the top shellb and the front are raised a bit more. Morla - to the left- has more open space between the bottom and top shell in both regards. Is one a different sex or are they just growing differently?

 

[Gillian M]

A warm welcome to the forum.

I think (though not sure) that your torts are females. Will tag the experienced members for help:

@Yvonne G @JoesMum @Tom please help here. Thank you all.

Please give them daily soaks in warm water so as to avoid dehydration and pyramiding, and read the "Beginners' Mistakes" Thread.

Any pics of enclosures?

 

[Markw84]

Welcome to the forum! You have found the best place there is for the most up to date and proven husbandry information on tortoises.

Your tortoises are way too young and small to be able to sex. Sulcatas normally don't start developing the secondary sexual characteristics until maybe the 12"+ range and I'm not confident to call a female until about 16" - as male characteristics can sometimes suddenly develop around that size in a tortoise thought to be female.

The differences you see in your tortoises right now are simply normal variations - not sexual characteristics.

From your post it seems you have added a second tortoise. It may be of interest to you that we have found two tortoises just do not do well kept together. There is always a more dominant one and the other ends up constantly under low-grade stress. That will almost always lead to one growing much faster, and the other growing much slower, and/or even developing illness. A small group can work as the "pecking order" issue is then spread out and not focused on one individual. But two is normally a recipe for eventual problems.

 

[Baoh]

The larger animal is a male. That will not change. The smaller one might be (leans toward) a female for me. That could change. In a while, I would recommend getting another female unless the space you have is massive (and I would still advise the second female in general for this species).

 

[Markw84]

The larger animal is a male. That will not change. The smaller one might be (leans toward) a female for me. That could change. In a while, I would recommend getting another female unless the space you have is massive (and I would still advise the second female in general for this species).

I’ve had over 100 6” sulcatas totally change the way their anal scutes look by the time they reach 15”. A male guess is probably safer since most sulcatas available these days turn out male but all my studies have shown any scute characteristics and shape have nothing to do with sex at 6”

 

[Baoh]

I’ve had over 100 6” sulcatas totally change the way their anal scutes look by the time they reach 15”. A male guess is probably safer since most sulcatas available these days turn out male but all my studies have shown any scute characteristics and shape have nothing to do with sex at 6”

That is nice.

 

[Oxman]

I was just worried because i didnt notice the anal scutes growing upwards until i got home with her(?). I had also never seen it before in any pictures describing how to sex them. The scutes on the bigger one were considerably closer together last month so that one may very well be a male. We have the land to make a big enclosure which will need to be done by spring in my opinion. I have them in a 30 gallon tank where the humidity bouncing around 50 to 70. They seem to get along well enough now that they have had a week to get to know each other. Othe than the tank i put them outside in a 6 by 6 pen to get their exercise and some natural sun when the weather permits it.

 

[Big Charlie]

A 30 gallon tank is too small for one tortoise, let alone two. You may think they are getting along but they may not think so. Tortoise aggression is difficult to spot.

It was probably not a good idea to put these tortoises together right away since the new one could have pathogens that may infect your first tortoise. A new animal should have been quarantined.

 

[Oxman]

Probably not, but hind sight is 20-20 you know? I knew that i was going to need to build their enclosure soon, especially having two. I started to lay the yard out soon after getting the second. As far as aggression goes, i doubt that much damage will ensue while theyre juveniles but its something i have been looking for and figure ill have to keep looking for until theyre fairly large. Worst comes to worst and i suppose i could just seperate the two.

 

[Big Charlie]

Probably not, but hind sight is 20-20 you know? I knew that i was going to need to build their enclosure soon, especially having two. I started to lay the yard out soon after getting the second. As far as aggression goes, i doubt that much damage will ensue while theyre juveniles but its something i have been looking for and figure ill have to keep looking for until theyre fairly large. Worst comes to worst and i suppose i could just seperate the two.

They probably won't actually attack each other. However, one may intimidate the other to keep her away from the food. The weaker one will just stop eating and try to hide.

 

[JoesMum]

Physical attacks aren’t as common as mental bullying. In the wild they’ll avoid other tortoises and can get out of the way. In captivity there is no escape.

Cuddling up together to sleep is actually one trying to move the other on. Always eating together indicates torts that are not relaxed... they need to make sure the other doesn’t get all/any of the food.

What we see time and again with pairs is that one will not grow as fast, or will be shyer, and too often the follow up is that the stressed subordinate tort has quickly become sick.

It’s the stress causing the problems rather than physical action

 

[harris]

Always eating together indicates torts that are not relaxed... they need to make sure the other doesn’t get all/any of the food.

This one actually made me laugh. A hungry tortoise isn't going to sit back and say, "I'll patiently wait until you're done with your share before I indulge myself".

 

[JoesMum]

This one actually made me laugh. A hungry tortoise isn't going to sit back and say, "I'll patiently wait until you're done with your share before I indulge myself".

We aren’t talking hunger. The dominant one will sit on the food dish, get in the way and generally make sure the subordinate one doesn’t get to eat as much. I may have worded it badly before, but it is no laughing matter

 

[Oxman]

I alredy noticed that not using a food dish works as well as using a food dish so theyre not bunched up while eating, especially if theyre getting fed daily rather than once every few days. Im using a slate tile rather than a food dish at the moment.

 

[Big Charlie]

I alredy noticed that not using a food dish works as well as using a food dish so theyre not bunched up while eating, especially if theyre getting fed daily rather than once every few days. Im using a slate tile rather than a food dish at the moment.

Slate is a great surface to feed them on. It helps keep their beaks trimmed too.

 

[TammyJ]

A nice big rough tile or slate, and a good amount of food mixed up and spread out all over it so one can't hog the whole thing, and it looks like plenty to them, (because it is) so no need to fight!