Manouria Hatchlings and Sunlight

[algoroth1]

We all know that tortoises need UV provided by bulbs or the Sun. But what is the minimum/maximum? In our case, Ponce (52 days old emys emys at 52 grams), has his enclosure on our screened porch which allows direct sunlight to hit about half the enclosure for about an hour or two a day in the morning. Once in a while Ponce is out in the direct Sun, but that seems to be coincidental with eating. Since we live in S. Florida and temps are warm with good humidity right now I plan to keep him outside on the porch. Does anyone with more experience than me with Manouria know if this is enough UV exposure? Thanks!
Ron

 

[Yvonne G]

I lost a 5 year old Mep to heat exhaustion, so I'm very careful about the amount of sun my manouria pens receive. I have my baby habitats in deep shade and only a slight amount of dappled sunlight ever gets in there.

Bear in mind that the UV rays float around in the atmosphere. You don't need to be in direct sunlight to get the UV. But I wonder if a screened-in porch allows the UV rays to penetrate the screen material.

 

[Itort]

As Yvonne points out Manouria are not real tolerant of high heat. The UV they receive in screened porch is probably the same as they receive in natural habitat. What is direction your porch faces ? If it faces east or north it may receive the light they are comfortable with and if west or south be sure they have access to heavy shade. In all cases be sure they shade and a sizeable wading water feature. Remember these guys come from deep rainforest with plenty of humidity in higher altitudes (thus mountain tortoise).

 

[algoroth1]

I lost a 5 year old Mep to heat exhaustion, so I'm very careful about the amount of sun my manouria pens receive. I have my baby habitats in deep shade and only a slight amount of dappled sunlight ever gets in there.

Bear in mind that the UV rays float around in the atmosphere. You don't need to be in direct sunlight to get the UV. But I wonder if a screened-in porch allows the UV rays to penetrate the screen material.

Thanks Yvonne. Sorry to hear about the loss of a 5 year old tort to heat. Must have been hard.
From what you say about your baby habitats I'm giving my mee more than enough direct sun. Half his enclosure is in constant shade and the other half gets about 1-1 1/2 hrs. of dappled or direct sun before noon each day.
The info about UV rays bouncing around is important. I don't think the screen would inhibit UV penetration since air can penetrate and you could get a good sunburn sitting behind a mesh screen ;>)

Thanks again and I look forward to picking your brain some more as my mee raising goes forward.
Ron

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As Yvonne points out Manouria are not real tolerant of high heat. The UV they receive in screened porch is probably the same as they receive in natural habitat. What is direction your porch faces ? If it faces east or north it may receive the light they are comfortable with and if west or south be sure they have access to heavy shade. In all cases be sure they shade and a sizeable wading water feature. Remember these guys come from deep rainforest with plenty of humidity in higher altitudes (thus mountain tortoise).

Hi Larry. Our porch is exposed on the east and south, but because of the roof overhang, direct sun only hits from the east.

BTW, since you mention the fact that these torts are from mountain rainforests, is there any information about the rainforest flora that they eat?

All the best,
Ron

 

[EricIvins]

Manouria can take high ambient temperatures - They are not necessarily from "mountain rainforests" - However like any Tortoise, direct sunlight without any or enough shelter will kill them fairly quick. That is all there is to that unfortunately......

 

[Itort]

Hi Larry. Our porch is exposed on the east and south, but because of the roof overhang, direct sun only hits from the east.

BTW, since you mention the fact that these torts are from mountain rainforests, is there any information about the rainforest flora that they eat?

All the best,
Ron
[/quote]According to Hoybye-Mortensen in his treatse on MEE northern Borneo 68% of wild diet is Alocasia sp. Other diet items are fungi, Begonia sp, Etlingera coccinea (wild ginger), and several other tropical Asian forbs. Alot of foraged forbs were never id'd because of size tort meant it ate entire plant. Unfortunately like most torts we are unable to recreate native diet in capativity. Luckily M. emys eat quite readily what offered. I believe you find most keepers of these guys also grow alocasia and colacasia.

 

[Madkins007]

Manouria can take high ambient temperatures - They are not necessarily from "mountain rainforests" - However like any Tortoise, direct sunlight without any or enough shelter will kill them fairly quick. That is all there is to that unfortunately......

Many sources state that they are not tolerant of high temps. Any idea what is going on with the conflicting statements? (I've never kept them, so just reporting what I have read.)

 

[algoroth1]

Larry,
Great information. I plan to start growing Alocasia among some of the other items noted in the paper you quoted. I now understand why Yvonne mentioned some of these plants that I'd never heard of before as food plants.

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Madkins007,
Great question. Having spent some time with Vic Morgan who is the expert on emys emys and emys phayrei I think I might know the answer.
Vic has recreated some rainforest habitat on his property. Even though in the summer it gets well above 90F for many weeks, his groups flourish. I'm sure that if they were kept dry and hot they's die. But with the humidity, sprinklers shade and air circulation he provides, the heat doesn't seem to bother them. Well, they sleep through the heat of the day and become active in the evening and at dawn anyway.
Of note is that he also has some huge beautiful Sulcatas that have the run of the place. They appear to naturally keep out of the deep moist forest and can be seen munching grass in the open.
The bottom line seems to be that tortoises must be extremely adaptable and even when taken out of their natural environment can manage if their core needs are met.So you can have emys living well outdoors with keepers in Iowa, Texas, California, Florida and even Michigan so long as they're warm and wet. I suspect the consistently high temps would kill them only if they were dry or were in a closed humid environment without open air circulation.
So much for my two cents ;>)
Ron

 

[Yvonne G]

Manouria can take high ambient temperatures - They are not necessarily from "mountain rainforests" - However like any Tortoise, direct sunlight without any or enough shelter will kill them fairly quick. That is all there is to that unfortunately......

Many sources state that they are not tolerant of high temps. Any idea what is going on with the conflicting statements? (I've never kept them, so just reporting what I have read.)

It has been my experience that they CANNOT take high temps unless they have access to shade, water, and even mist. It was only 85F degrees here one day and I lost an Mep to heat stroke.

 

[Yellow Turtle]

I lost a 5 year old Mep to heat exhaustion, so I'm very careful about the amount of sun my manouria pens receive. I have my baby habitats in deep shade and only a slight amount of dappled sunlight ever gets in there.

Bear in mind that the UV rays float around in the atmosphere. You don't need to be in direct sunlight to get the UV. But I wonder if a screened-in porch allows the UV rays to penetrate the screen material.

Does it mean that I can cover the terra with something and even through indirect sunlight my torts still can get some uvb?
I thought screen, especially if made from glass will screen all uvb although not the uva?

 

[tortadise]

Manouria can take high ambient temperatures - They are not necessarily from "mountain rainforests" - However like any Tortoise, direct sunlight without any or enough shelter will kill them fairly quick. That is all there is to that unfortunately......

Many sources state that they are not tolerant of high temps. Any idea what is going on with the conflicting statements? (I've never kept them, so just reporting what I have read.)

It has been my experience that they CANNOT take high temps unless they have access to shade, water, and even mist. It was only 85F degrees here one day and I lost an Mep to heat stroke.


This is as well as my keepings for both MEP and MEE. It gets very hot in texas, mine flouish just fine. I have extreme shade large water tub and misting systems. They will soak during the warmest parts of the day. heavily planted, very moist and very small amounts of sun and they will do great.

 

[rickyn0792]

I lost a 5 year old Mep to heat exhaustion, so I'm very careful about the amount of sun my manouria pens receive. I have my baby habitats in deep shade and only a slight amount of dappled sunlight ever gets in there.

Bear in mind that the UV rays float around in the atmosphere. You don't need to be in direct sunlight to get the UV. But I wonder if a screened-in porch allows the UV rays to penetrate the screen material.

UV can penetrate threw screen but not threw glass

 

[emysbreeder]

Most everything said here has some truth to it. The urbin myth about high temps. and Manouria started by a paper I wrote in the early nindies. I was speaking of babies but it morphed to all sizes. Some of M.emys emys range is on or below the equator. It is HOT. In their northern Range it is HOT as hell most of the year with a very short cool to 32F. in Winter Jan. Feb. Shade and high humidity plus water/Mud and deep loose leaf litter/Moss is needed. Direct Sun lite is a quick killer if they cant move out of it. My adults always choose water or mud when very hot .Babies/young juvies choose under substrate or logs/bark/anything they can squeeze under. Winter/Cold weather is another very long story of its own. It sounds like the Mt.Tortoise owners here are very good. Beware of BS everywhere on the Net now days. Good luck and I'll start looking here more often as all intrest is dead on kingsnake forums. Vic Morgan 25 yrs "running with Mt.Tortoises"

 

[Yvonne G]

Vic!!! Is that YOU????? What a privilege for us to have you as a member here on our forum!

The Mep that I lost to heat exhaustion was one that I bought from you many years ago. Sad to say that the other one also died a couple years ago. I was away for the day and an aggressive female tipped her over and she was dead when I found her. I had bought two hatchlings from you. One had uneven scutes. They both ended up being female. I was very sad to have lost them both. But I'm having some minimum success breeding on my own. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old that I hatched here.

Wow...Vic Morgan. Greg Aldabra man and now Vic Manouria man! Way to go Forum!!

 

[EricIvins]

So like I was saying, high temperatures do kill Manouria. Even Impressa can take high ambient temperatures. I would venture to say that there is more Manouria in Florida than any other state in the union, and they just don't keel and die when we hit mid or upper 90's. It is all about giving the animals options, and letting them choose what they want to do in that situation........That should go with any Tortoise species though.......

 

[harris]

Wow...Vic Morgan. Greg Aldabra man and now Vic Manouria man! Way to go Forum!!

I couldn't agree more! Awesome!!

 

[Itort]

Yes, glad to have Vic and his vast experience here.

 

[emysbreeder]

Thanks for the kind words Yvonne, Sorry to here about the death of your CB Mt's. I,ve had it happen to and I've got to say it was very skocking and I had that cold deep felt feeling you get when a human you know dies. It was very hard to shake it off. Its a lifetime every day risk with Mt.Torts. Anytime you re-arrange them in a different pen with other Mt.Torts of eather sex you will increase your odds of a turnover, and fighting. Males can be brutal fighters with lots of bitting in the face. Anyway I'm glade to be here and here other peoples Mt.Tortoise stories. Its a grate life and nothing beats watching a baby hatch and you see 30,000,000 years looking back at you. From a liquid ball of chemicals to a primitive beast in 64 days. I'll help out when I can, and learn something too. Good Luck Vic