Matteo is Off the Growth Charts. Help with Diet?

[Quixx66]

Hi y’all,
I’ve been thinking that Matteo is growing faster than I expected but I’m a newb so I wasn’t sure. I took someone’s advice to check Hermann’s growth charts. To my surprise, Matteo is the size of a five year old! He’s 62g not the 24 tops recomAnd he’s supposed to be one of the very smallest Hermann’s species.

I’m concerned about his health, not him being svelte, so please no snark about me fat shaming my tortoise (yes that happened a few weeks ago on the TF Facebook page. By more than one person.)

I provide 1) two Mazuri pellets a day, often soaked with herbs. He only eats one, and most often less. 2) Spring mix. I give him she’ll die but he really only eats one or two leaves. 3) a mixture of the above.

It seems to me he stops eating once he’s full. Do I need to cut down on what I offer him? Offer him less caloric food?

I have testified mix seeds from Tortoise Supply I can start to germinate now indoors, but I fear my hay fever won’t allow me to grow in his enclosure in the winter.

Note that I will get him some new hides (and plants soon). I recently ordered ones that are too big or wrong kind, so it a bit bare.

Anything I should be doing differently?

Thanks all!

 

[Ink]

Can you post a picture of his plastron? Is he a Western or Eastern Hermanns?

 

[Quixx66]

Can you post a picture of his plastron? Is he a Western or Eastern Hermanns?

I will. My pics don’t post. Trying new thread. Won’t let me.

 

[TeamZissou]

Can you post a link to these growth charts?

 

[Quixx66]

Can you post a picture of his plastron? Is he a Western or Eastern Hermanns?

 

[Quixx66]

Can you post a link to these growth charts?

Sorry. The pic was supposed to post in the original post but didn’t for some unknown reason. I tried to fix. There was no link, I found it in pic form online.

 

[TeamZissou]

What publication is this from?

The second photo looks like some kind of clothing sizing chart.

 

[Krista S]

I don’t know what that chart is, but from your initial post, a 5 year old Hermann’s tortoise should weigh a heck of a lot more than 62 grams. There must be more context in the book you’re reading because something isn’t right. Not everyone believe in it, but I use the Jackson Ratio from time to time to try and figure out if my tortoises weight is right for his length. Get an accurate measurement of his length in cm and his weight and plug it into the Jackson Ratio calculator and see how that looks.

Jackson Ratio Calculator - Tortoise Protection Group

 

[Quixx66]

What publication is this from?

The second photo looks like some kind of clothing sizing chart.

Weird pic, sorry. I screenshot off my Pinterest because the growth chart doesn’t have a link. Just ignore the rest.

 

[Quixx66]

I don’t know what that chart is, but from your initial post, a 5 year old Hermann’s tortoise should weigh a heck of a lot more than 62 grams. There must be more context in the book you’re reading because something isn’t right. Not everyone believe in it, but I use the Jackson Ratio from time to time to try and figure out if my tortoises weight is right for his length. Get an accurate measurement of his length in cm and his weight and plug it into the Jackson Ratio calculator and see how that looks.

Jackson Ratio Calculator - Tortoise Protection Group

Thank you for the calculator. Does it tell you if the tort is the right size for his age? I got it from this book:
Wolfgang Wegehaupt
Naturalistic keeping and breeding of Hermann´s Tortoises

 

[Quixx66]

What publication is this from?

The second photo looks like some kind of clothing sizing chart.

Wolfgang Wegehaupt
Naturalistic keeping and breeding of Hermann´s Tortoises

 

[Ink]

Do you know if it is an Eastern or Western Hermanns? Western is smaller. I have both however I am not an expert on either one.

 

[TeamZissou]

This is a Western

 

[Quixx66]

Matteo is 8 MONTHS old, not five years. I meant to indicate the chart I found has him as big as a five year old.

 

[Krista S]

Thank you for the calculator. Does it tell you if the tort is the right size for his age? I got it from this book:
Wolfgang Wegehaupt
Naturalistic keeping and breeding of Hermann´s Tortoises

It won’t tell you if the size is appropriate for the age because there’s so many species and sub species and all tortoise grow at a different rate. It just gives you an idea of if the weight is too high, too low or just right for their length. I knew you were referring to the chart for 5 years old, I was just saying that I don’t understand what the chart could be referring to, because a 5 year old should weigh more than the stated numbers, in my opinion.

 

[Quixx66]

This is a Western

Yes, he’s a Mt. Etna variant and thus supposed to be a tiny tort. He got bigger faster than I expected.

 

[Tom]

That info is for a wild tortoise that is barely surviving out in the elements. Your tortoise is well hydrated, well fed and housed correctly. Is SHOULD grow much faster than its wild counterpart. This indicates good health, not a problem.

62 grams is tiny. I have that book too. I found it interesting, but not very helpful as far as what works for a captive tortoise housed in North America. Simulating the wild and what we perceive is happening out there yields poor results. Between 300-1000 die for every one that survives to adulthood in the wild. That is not something I want to attempt to simulate. I prefer to attempt to simulate the optimal elements of wild living while eliminating the bad parts.

 

[Quixx66]

That info is for a wild tortoise that is barely surviving out in the elements. Your tortoise is well hydrated, well fed and housed correctly. Is SHOULD grow much faster than its wild counterpart. This indicates good health, not a problem.

62 grams is tiny. I have that book too. I found it interesting, but not very helpful as far as what works for a captive tortoise housed in North America. Simulating the wild and what we perceive is happening out there yields poor results. Between 300-1000 die for every one that survives to adulthood in the wild. That is not something I want to attempt to simulate. I prefer to attempt to simulate the optimal elements of wild living while eliminating the bad parts.

Thank you so much for the reassurance. Good to know I can keep doing what I’m doing and that Matteo is okay.

 

[TeamZissou]

@yay14 Check out this thread. This addresses your 50 g hatchling question.

 

[Blackdog1714]

When was that printed? also how large was the sample they were using? I figure as long as your meeting all the criteria to keep your tort healthy the solid growth just backs up you are doing it right. Look at all the post wondering about is my tortoise growing and they hold a one year old leopard in the palm of there hand. My leopard is just two and I can barely pick him up with one hand he is so big!