MEE with MEP plastron?

Haydar Kurniawan

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Hello all, I'm new to the forum and just got my first tortoise..

I live in Java, Indonesia, recently adopt a what supposed to be an MEE.. but from what I've read, the plastron match with MEP characteristic (pectoral scute meet at center), and this is the first I've seen with that plastron since I'm start browsing locally for Manouria months ago, the seller said it's an CB from breeder in Sumatra..

the tortoise is about 6inch or 17cm, with greenish-brown color commonly found on MEE, as you can see, the plastron color is also different from commonly MEE, as it's just plain with less/no motif/gradient.. is there any suggestion about that plastron, could it be just individual variant?
 

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Yvonne G

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It might be that the breeder has both species and keeps them together, making this an intergrade, but from the looks of it, it's an Mep.
 

Haydar Kurniawan

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thanks for you reply.. it could be intergrade, but MEP isn't native to Indonesia.. yes, there's some in circulation, but very small number, and afaik those from import only.. the price gap between MEP and MEE can go up to 10X for hatchling.. if this indeed intergrade CB, the breeder could be sorted them.. keep the black one for higher price, and let the one with common MEE color go as normal price..
 

Haydar Kurniawan

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while I'm scrolling for #manouriaemys hashtag in Instagram, I stumble with this images from 2018.. an Emys found by some park ranger in the wild, in Bukit-Tigapuluh national park, Riau - Sumatra, and it have the same plastron as my Emys, the coloration seem similar too..

so, I think this plastron indeed a natural variation of MEE, but probably in very low number..

here's the instagram link:
 

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MEEJogja

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Your setup looks very natural, well done @Haydar Kurniawan
Very interesting re: the plastron... I have only ever seen one or two MEPs come up for sale in Indonesia and they have been extortionate so I agree it's very unlikely to be an imported MEP that accidentally made its way into the supply chain.
I also think it's very unlikely to have actually come from a breeder who may accidentally have created an intergrade, sorry to say. For one it's not yet economical to breed Emys with the cheap wild caught supply and the difficulty everyone seems to face doing it. Secondly it's too old. Babies are in stronger demand and the few times I've seen people on Facebook get lucky and have a successful clutch, they have immediately been sold as babies.
None of this helps with the mystery though I'm afraid. There should not be any MEPs or integrates wandering the wild of Sumatra or Borneo.
 

Haydar Kurniawan

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Your setup looks very natural, well done @Haydar Kurniawan
Very interesting re: the plastron... I have only ever seen one or two MEPs come up for sale in Indonesia and they have been extortionate so I agree it's very unlikely to be an imported MEP that accidentally made its way into the supply chain.
I also think it's very unlikely to have actually come from a breeder who may accidentally have created an intergrade, sorry to say. For one it's not yet economical to breed Emys with the cheap wild caught supply and the difficulty everyone seems to face doing it. Secondly it's too old. Babies are in stronger demand and the few times I've seen people on Facebook get lucky and have a successful clutch, they have immediately been sold as babies.
None of this helps with the mystery though I'm afraid. There should not be any MEPs or integrates wandering the wild of Sumatra or Borneo.
thank you..

for the plastron, it's confuse me alright.. it boldly say MEP, both pectoral scutes affirmatively meet at center, unlike some intergrades that often the scutes vaguely meet, but everything else about the tortoise say MEE..
 

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