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Meet my new baby Leopard SPP

Discussion in 'Leopard tortoises' started by Parais11, May 15, 2019.

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  1. Parais11

    Parais11 Member

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    Yup. I read that one. I find that he wants nothing to do with grass at the moment. I’ll keep offering some clippings mixed in so he hopefully gets a taste for it. At this point I’d have to imagine it’s like a kid who doesn’t like his veggies. He’s in a closed chamber. 80-92 with a basking spot of 105. Humidity is steady between 70-80%. Does that seem correct? Night temps 80.
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  2. Tom

    Tom The Dog Trainer 5 Year Member

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    I'd lower the basking area temp about 10 degrees.

    Like all tortoises, they eat what they were introduced to as babies and have eaten before. Few breeders take the time to introduce grass to hatchlings when it is easy to do, so you'll have to do it the hard way. I think your plan is prefect. Just keep offering tender soft clippings mixed in with the other food. Eventually, the grass will be seen as "food" too.
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  3. Parais11

    Parais11 Member

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    Awesome. I really appreciate all the help!!!!
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  4. G-stars

    G-stars Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed that this is the same tortoise your selling over on fauna classifieds. I’m assuming you decided not to keep him after all?
    samkerns1, Gijoux and diamondbp like this.
  5. Parais11

    Parais11 Member

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    To be honest, I am unsure. I was going to see if I got any bites, then would decide.
  6. Mellivora

    Mellivora New Member 5 Year Member

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  7. Mellivora

    Mellivora New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hope everyone is not going to come down on me like a ton of bricks again when I am just trying to provide accurate data.
    Just to establish my credentials, I had my first pp more than 50 years ago and have been "breeding" them for probably the past decade.a la natural meaning that the females lay there eggs outside in their enclosure (approximately 15000 square feet of South African soil) where they hatch in their own time.
    The enclosure is not 100% baby proof which means that some of the hatchlings escape and live free in their natural habitat.
    Currently there are nearly 80 babies of which about 10 are slow growers from the previous season.
    To come back to this thread I agree that the markings on this pp is not common but I am fairly sure that this is a pp.
    Like people they have different personalities and some will immediately extend their limbs when they are picked up while others will do just the opposite.
    Tom please accept that I am not trying to contradict you but just trying to add to the knowledge on this site.
    Regarding growth I have just weighed one of my youngsters that I kept back due to its abnormal scute configuration and at approximately 2 years he weighs just over 200 grams.
    Have I underfed him - I doubt it, a couple of weeks ago one of the neighbour's kids brought me a young one that their dogs had found in the veld (must be one of mine that escaped as a hatchling) he was at least 2 years old and was smaller than the one I raised.
    Just as a matter of interest there is no part of RSA (South Africa) that has a monsoon climate. The warmest area in RSA is subtropical and as it happens this is the one area where pps do not occur naturally.
    We have had an extremely warm summer and currently temperatures are still above average - day time temp. tomorrow will be 24 and tonight it will go down to 7 Celsius.
    Midwinter last year we went down as low as minus 7 and these are the temperatures at which the little guy that escaped survived.
    I am not for one moment suggesting that anyone should raise their pets at these extremes just illustrating that the temperature can be allowed to vary.
    Just as a matter of interest it was mentioned that South African pp's are more expensive, why and what is the average price in the USA?
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  8. Tom

    Tom The Dog Trainer 5 Year Member

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    This is great info. Please feel free to share. Your info is first hand and directly from the source. My info is based on 9 years of keeping SA leopards, from one single source and a few dozen animals. I don't think your info is contradictory. I think it is simply adding more info to the knowledge base, as you stated.

    Here is some more insight into why there might be differences in how we might have formed our differing opinions:
    • I've been to the RSA twice. Once to Johannesburg for about 2 weeks in 1998, and again to Capetown and George in 2005 for about 4 months. I saw SA leopards both times. Both types were different in appearance. The ones down on the Cape are different than the ones we have over here in the states. The Cape SA leopards are darker in color and higher domed. I'm still not sure which type gets bigger.
    • There are supposedly, according to the scientists, 6 different and distinct "clades" of leopard tortoises from SA. The type down at the south western tip is one type, and if I'm not mistaken, the ones we have over here came from around Pretoria. At least that's what the import papers said. It could be that one type is more outgoing than the others, and that would account for why all of mine remain out and flailing when picked up, while some of yours tuck in. It could also be that mine are all in artificial environments most of the time, while yours are in a much more "natural" type of enclosure, which would make mine more desensitized to human contact and proximity.
    • While I was in SA working one of the crew members and friends I worked with was a man we called "Spud". He was from the mountains (Wish I knew a city name or more specific location...) and he said it snows there and the leopards in his area simply hibernate. So I know what you are saying about the temperature extremes they can survive is true. Experience has shown me that those same temps over here tend to make them sick or kill them. Raising dozens of babies in a variety of ways over many years, doing the same with other species, and watching what other keepers do with their own SA leopards has shown me what works best for raising SA leopards in captivity here in my area. Further, I'm not trying for "survivable" conditions. I'm attempting to give them "optimal" conditions. Some keepers here let them cool during winter. I'm not a fan of that. I did it in years past, and I get better results when they have a warm retreat year round. They do get some naturally cooler weather and rain here in winter, but they sleep in a warm night box.
    I think this conversation is relevant for the OP's thread, but I would love to converse more with you and see lots of pics in a new thread started by you or me. I'd love to talk all about what you've learned after five decades with one of my favorite species. I can only imagine the insight you must have and the stories you could share. Will you share your knowledge and experience with us?
    CarolM likes this.
  9. Mellivora

    Mellivora New Member 5 Year Member

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    Would like to do that Tom but do not have the time to investigate how to start a new thread.
    Would appreciate it if you could start one for us.
    I have quite a number of pics of interesting deviations and injury survivors to share.
    Cheryl Hills likes this.
  10. TheKB

    TheKB New Member

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    newthread.jpg

    Here's a quick guide I made. First get to the right area in the forums and then click the "Post new thread" button.
    I'd love to see your pictures and hear what you have to say.
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  11. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin

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