Miniature sully or something else....???

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mctlong

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Hey folks,

I just bought this eensy teensy little guy off Craigslist.

The person I got him from has had him for more than 4 years. The petstore told her that this sully was two or three months old at the time of purchase. Now, more than 4 years later, he's approx 2.75" SCL and weighs 80 grams. As you can see, he has an unusual color. Some of that can be attributed to the red calcium sand he was kept on, which you can see in the pics, has stained his plastron.

The obvious question is, why in the world is he so small? Any ideas?

One thought is that he may not be a sully. I considered possibly a chaco, but I assume even a Chaco would be over 3 inches at 4 years old? Of course, I've never owned a Chaco, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Are there any other tortoise species that anyone can think of that has spurred thighs, heavy arm scales, and slow growth?

My next thought is a health issue. He was raised in a dry environment with UV lighting and access to water. He may be partially blind in one eye. His shell is not soft. He had a respiratory infection early on and fearing another one, his owner kept him in a dry indoor enclosure. He was taken out to the yard to graze. His diet, according to the owner, consisted primarily of clovers and dandelion which he grazed out of the yard.

He appears dehydrated. Could long-term dehydration cause a growth delay this extreme?

My last resort would be to say that its some sort of genetic issue, but I want to exhaust all ideas before I explain it away as genetic.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Also, he is un-named. Any ideas on a good name? I've just been calling him "tiny."

ry%3D400


ry%3D400


ry%3D400


ry%3D480
 

tortadise

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looks like either a chaco or common padloper. Could be a desert tort too. You got me stumped. Cool find though. Even of the species mentioned would be much larger than 2.75" at 4 years old. hmmm
 

wellington

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His legs look to me like he is very underfed. They are so skinny. It sounds,like he was kept fairly well, except for the hot and dry part. Did they give him any calcium or vitamins that you know of? Will be interesting to see how he comes along.
 

mctlong

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wellington said:
His legs look to me like he is very underfed. They are so skinny. It sounds,like he was kept fairly well, except for the hot and dry part. Did they give him any calcium or vitamins that you know of? Will be interesting to see how he comes along.

He does look thin.

She had some calcium powder but didn't say how often she gave it to him.


tortadise said:
looks like either a chaco or common padloper. Could be a desert tort too. You got me stumped. Cool find though. Even of the species mentioned would be much larger than 2.75" at 4 years old. hmmm

Do you know if the padloper has spurs on its thighs?
 

mctlong

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tortadise said:
Do you know where they got it and anymore history?


She said she got it from a petstore 4 years ago. She didn't say which one, but she did say that they had no business selling tortoises and gave her very bad care advice.

They told her it was a sulcata, 2-3 months old.
 

tortadise

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yeah but usually just one, and a nuchal scute. However no Idea on if sometimes they have lack of nuchal kinda like 5% of aldabras dont have one. Would make sense of its very large beak and tiny size. Im not too certain of the growth rates of homopus femoralis but might be. VERY unlikely to find one in the states let alone craigslist. But sure does show some signs of one. Would be cool.


Well you got me. Looks like a sully no doubt, but so small, with a giant head and huge beak. Cool color. The spurs and gular are very consistent with a sully.
 

mctlong

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I'm looking at photos of padlopers on google and it looks like my new tort's carapace is a bit more domed than the padlopers. What do you think?

ry%3D480
 

Eweezyfosheezy

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Looks like a sulcata to me, I've seen a few sulcatas that small around the same age but they all had no access to UV. A name suggestion I have for him/her is Sandstone.
 

tortadise

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Yeah thats pretty domed for a padloper even a femoralis. I was just hoping maybe you found one :D What an odd find you have there. Pretty cool though. Does it eat good and show to be active? Make sure in weird scenarios(and all new animal additions) to keep quarantine period. Especially with those platynotas in your care :D
 

mctlong

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I'll get him hydrated and well fed. If he's starts growing like a sully, then we'll have a clear answer.

By default, I'll be raising him like a sulcata, including the high sully temps. Can Chacos and padlopers thrive under the same high temps as sulllies?


tortadise said:
Yeah thats pretty domed for a padloper even a femoralis. I was just hoping maybe you found one :D What an odd find you have there. Pretty cool though. Does it eat good and show to be active? Make sure in weird scenarios(and all new animal additions) to keep quarantine period. Especially with those platynotas in your care :D

This guys getting nowhere near my stars!:D


He's not active and is dehydrated. I haven't seem him eat, but I've only had him for a couple hours.

If he's a sully, I may be able to put him with my other sully, but only if he grows, and only after at least a 6 months quarantine period. My sully is only 6-months old and already over twice as heavy as this new little guy. If the little guy doesn't grow, he'll live alone indefinitely. I wouldn't want the bigger sully to crush him or push him around.
 

tortadise

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More than likely its a sullie that held on strong. Yep sure can. Chacos like it hot, at least mine do. and Padlopers can handle heat too.
 

mctlong

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Eweezyfosheezy said:
Looks like a sulcata to me, I've seen a few sulcatas that small around the same age but they all had no access to UV. A name suggestion I have for him/her is Sandstone.

Thanks, I like that name.
 

wellington

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Do you think it could be a mix of the chacos and sully? Possibly a sully and something else?
Do you think she was telling the truth about its age and not just saying what she did to get rid of it, because she realized she made a mistake buying a sully?
 

mctlong

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wellington said:
Do you think she was telling the truth about its age and not just saying what she did to get rid of it, because she realized she made a mistake buying a sully?

I don't think she was lying. She seemed honest and she clearly cared about the animal. There are also some oddities about this little guy that makes him not quite right. His color is unusual for a sully and his head is odd-shaped, looks disproportionately large for his body.

wellington said:
Do you think it could be a mix of the chacos and sully? Possibly a sully and something else?

That would be AWESOME! But I seriously doubt it. What are the chances? I haven't heard of mixing anything with a sully except a leopard.
 

tortadise

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HAHA No. Chacos only get 8" max for females and males are a bit smaller. I would love to see a little 6" male chaco trying to breed a 20" female sulcata. That would be a funny picture and highly unlikely. Time will tell on this guy.
 

mctlong

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Re: RE: Miniature sully or something else....???

emysemys said:
Your new little tortoise looks similar to the last picture on this page:

http://www.arkive.org/chaco-tortoise/chelonoidis-chilensis/photos.html

I'm so glad you bought him. Please keep us updated with pictures. If you don't mind, I'd like to show your pictures to Danny over on Shelled Warriors.

I don't mind. Let me know what he says.


Thanks Yvonne. He does look alot like the Chaco tortoise in the pic. I wish I could flip that Chaco over and take a look at its plastron.

I'll keep the forum updated with pictures and weights.


Eweezyfosheezy said:
Looks like a sulcata to me, I've seen a few sulcatas that small around the same age but they all had no access to UV. A name suggestion I have for him/her is Sandstone.

Elliott, do you know how long those sullies lived?


Laura said:
i think its a chaco.......

I hope so. If he's a Chaco, then he's only a little small for his age and has a good chance of surviving. If he's a sully then I fear that he may have some severe health issues.


Either way, we'll get him fat and happy and see what happens.
 

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I have seen many suer small sulcata. Usually its due to dehydration and a diet of just hay or grass. I think some of the babies that are started with the dry method somehow survive it, but it stunts them. I've seen 6 year old sulcatas this size. The ones I've seen before were living outside mostly, so subjected to temperature extremes, and extreme dryness here in SoCal. Indoors they usually still grow, they just grow very disfigured. Just mentioning some generalities...

The color could be explained by the red reptisand. The beak, well, we all know the contributing factors there. The front leg scales suggest sulcata to me, but I've been wrong before and I'll probably be wrong again.

Looks like a stunted, stained sulcata to me. No way of knowing the life span. It might die tomorrow, or live more than 100 years.
 
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