RiverOtter
New Member
Ok, now that I've brought every expert running to beat sense into me, let me first assure everyone that this is NOT happening this year, and we are trying to work out if it should happen, ever, then let's take a closer look at this exact situation.
First, know that we are not your typical family. We farm. We have very different definitions of "big" and "difficult" than most folks. I have dealt with animals, domestic and exotic, tame and wild, large and small since I myself was 14. I am fully accustomed to fencing in acreage and building housing for specific animals (nothing, nothing, can possibly harder to house and fence than the 900# sow we once had, appropriately named That B*tch.) I already buy hay and alfalfa cubes by the ton (about 30 tons a year) We already have horses, cows, goats, sheep, pigs, poultry and I have a pet Tibetan Yak bull, inside we have an assortment of dogs, cats, fish, budgies, ball pythons (and the rats to feed them) leopard geckos - but no tortoises. We've actually never had a tortoise.
Now, quick note, I am deeply not a fan of the notion of "starter animals". Particularly with things like, say, tortoises that live for decades. Could I get him a Russian off craigslist tomorrow? Absolutely! And in a year when that is still not the animal that he actually wanted, so we upgrade to what was desired all along, what happens with the Russian for the next 49 years? Not at all fair to the animal, better to do one's homework and just get what you want - unless you find out what you want is undoable.
And, he really, really wants one (quick note, still may not happen, but, homework). He loves them. Loves. Has loved them all his life. I don't remember just how bitty he was when he first took notice of a tortoise in a pet store and asked if he could have one, but I remember saying that I'd have to take a look and see what they needed and he said "No, not that one. A big one."
How did he know at that tiny age that they came in BIG? But he did, and he wanted one.
A couple of years ago when we visited FL, we went to a tortoise park. I thought that if he saw just how big BIG was, and how really nice some of the, I guess more "standard-size" tortoises could be, it would be easy to convince him that a 30# tortoise is big enough. Nope. He liked all the species plenty, got excited when he saw the sulcatas, but fell head over heels in LOVE with the aldabra. He would have stayed there all day, joyfully. This was it, his dream come true, now given name and form. He wants to have children so that someone can take care of his tortoise when he's gone. He actually said that to me, and that he wanted a pet that he could have for his whole life, and then he could have children and his children could have it for their whole lives, and they'll be the tortoise family.
So, experts, I need you to tell me all that we would need.
4x8 high-humidity indoor pen for the first year - easy. We do have other reptiles so are familiar with all the concepts.
Diet - again, grass I've got, fresh, dry and cubed. We garden, have a greenhouse and a hoophouse, this is not a problem. BUT, I do have 2 questions! How important are cactus pads? Everywhere I look I see cactus pads as part of their diet. How vital is this? What does cactus provide them that other foods don't? Very importantly, what kind of cactus because that's really, really vague. The second question regards calcium. Now, I don't have a problem providing calcium as dust, ground hard-boiled eggshell powder, cuttlebones, whatever, but, I have to ask, wouldn't an inclusive diet source be better? Like alfalfa? My dairy goats get all the alfalfa they want when they're in milk, because it gives them the calcium they need. I buy THIS in bulk.
My big concerns are winter and growth rtate. We live in NY. It’s cold for 5 months. Now, for as long as the tortoise can come inside for the winter and still have it’s exercise needs meet, it’s fine – but how long would that be? I saw on another thread that being 10# at 3 years is a pretty good growth rate, how many years before they are 50#? 100#? How many years will a basement with a radient heated floor buy us*? How much space for walking does a 100# aldabra need over the winter to stay healthy? Outside housing is not an issue – I have paddocks for many species. My main thing is how many years before we need to build a massive heated barn or move south? Because if it’s 3-4 yerars, then we can’t manage it. If it’s 10-12 years, my winter-hating little man will be a big grown man and able to move down south or build his tortoise paradise as he sees fit.
*Yes, I can get a tortoise of any size in and out of a basement. Basement has stairs that easily convert to a ramp outside for the willing and able and I have a tractor and sling if otherwise, I have (safely!!) pulled an 1800# cow out of a rough spot and carried her, I can move whatever needs moved
First, know that we are not your typical family. We farm. We have very different definitions of "big" and "difficult" than most folks. I have dealt with animals, domestic and exotic, tame and wild, large and small since I myself was 14. I am fully accustomed to fencing in acreage and building housing for specific animals (nothing, nothing, can possibly harder to house and fence than the 900# sow we once had, appropriately named That B*tch.) I already buy hay and alfalfa cubes by the ton (about 30 tons a year) We already have horses, cows, goats, sheep, pigs, poultry and I have a pet Tibetan Yak bull, inside we have an assortment of dogs, cats, fish, budgies, ball pythons (and the rats to feed them) leopard geckos - but no tortoises. We've actually never had a tortoise.
Now, quick note, I am deeply not a fan of the notion of "starter animals". Particularly with things like, say, tortoises that live for decades. Could I get him a Russian off craigslist tomorrow? Absolutely! And in a year when that is still not the animal that he actually wanted, so we upgrade to what was desired all along, what happens with the Russian for the next 49 years? Not at all fair to the animal, better to do one's homework and just get what you want - unless you find out what you want is undoable.
And, he really, really wants one (quick note, still may not happen, but, homework). He loves them. Loves. Has loved them all his life. I don't remember just how bitty he was when he first took notice of a tortoise in a pet store and asked if he could have one, but I remember saying that I'd have to take a look and see what they needed and he said "No, not that one. A big one."
How did he know at that tiny age that they came in BIG? But he did, and he wanted one.
A couple of years ago when we visited FL, we went to a tortoise park. I thought that if he saw just how big BIG was, and how really nice some of the, I guess more "standard-size" tortoises could be, it would be easy to convince him that a 30# tortoise is big enough. Nope. He liked all the species plenty, got excited when he saw the sulcatas, but fell head over heels in LOVE with the aldabra. He would have stayed there all day, joyfully. This was it, his dream come true, now given name and form. He wants to have children so that someone can take care of his tortoise when he's gone. He actually said that to me, and that he wanted a pet that he could have for his whole life, and then he could have children and his children could have it for their whole lives, and they'll be the tortoise family.
So, experts, I need you to tell me all that we would need.
4x8 high-humidity indoor pen for the first year - easy. We do have other reptiles so are familiar with all the concepts.
Diet - again, grass I've got, fresh, dry and cubed. We garden, have a greenhouse and a hoophouse, this is not a problem. BUT, I do have 2 questions! How important are cactus pads? Everywhere I look I see cactus pads as part of their diet. How vital is this? What does cactus provide them that other foods don't? Very importantly, what kind of cactus because that's really, really vague. The second question regards calcium. Now, I don't have a problem providing calcium as dust, ground hard-boiled eggshell powder, cuttlebones, whatever, but, I have to ask, wouldn't an inclusive diet source be better? Like alfalfa? My dairy goats get all the alfalfa they want when they're in milk, because it gives them the calcium they need. I buy THIS in bulk.
My big concerns are winter and growth rtate. We live in NY. It’s cold for 5 months. Now, for as long as the tortoise can come inside for the winter and still have it’s exercise needs meet, it’s fine – but how long would that be? I saw on another thread that being 10# at 3 years is a pretty good growth rate, how many years before they are 50#? 100#? How many years will a basement with a radient heated floor buy us*? How much space for walking does a 100# aldabra need over the winter to stay healthy? Outside housing is not an issue – I have paddocks for many species. My main thing is how many years before we need to build a massive heated barn or move south? Because if it’s 3-4 yerars, then we can’t manage it. If it’s 10-12 years, my winter-hating little man will be a big grown man and able to move down south or build his tortoise paradise as he sees fit.
*Yes, I can get a tortoise of any size in and out of a basement. Basement has stairs that easily convert to a ramp outside for the willing and able and I have a tractor and sling if otherwise, I have (safely!!) pulled an 1800# cow out of a rough spot and carried her, I can move whatever needs moved
