My 2017 South African Leos

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here I am in the PNW yet I lack any local tortoise people. Mostly I turn people into tortoise people.

 

[MichaelS]

Agreed....I wasn't sure till they were 10"...what they were unless they showed me. One thing for sure with SA...at least the 20 plus I have raised so far...if they are fast growers...99% sure they are male...all my males turned out that way and all females were slow growers.

Yeah I'm starting too see that too, with my other SAs, with the fast growers being a sure sign of a male BUT maybe these from Tom that were started humid will all be fast growers

 

[Tom]

One thing for sure with SA...at least the 20 plus I have raised so far...if they are fast growers...99% sure they are male...all my males turned out that way and all females were slow growers.

Same thing for me. In time the girls catch up. At about 3-4 years old, my girls all hit a big growth spurt and caught up to, or outgrew the males. Now, as adults, the males are steadily putting on size, while the females are growing slower if at all.

 

[Ramsey]

Great looking torts. I love the look of SAs.

 

[Mbchs]

They are beautiful!

 

[MichaelS]

Here are some weight numbers and pre-soak and during soak shots of the 'dirty half dozen'. Lots of good growth coming on.

WT on 10-1-17:
Chip: 84g
Flo: 81g
3 Dot: 65g
1 Dot Butt: 87g
2 Dot Front: 64g
Heart Side: 71g

WT on 11-1-17:
Chip: 118g
Flo: 108g
3 Dot: 83g
1 Dot Butt: 116g
2 Dot Front: 84g
Heart Side: 98g


Photos taken 11-1-17

Transporting them from their indoor closed chamber to their patio private soaking tubs



Getting a nice sun bath on the patio:

 

[Tom]

Thanks so much for posting this. It brings me tremendous happiness to get to see them grow up.

I'll bet that two or three of the smaller ones are female. For some reason the females grow slower in the first couple of years.

 

[diamondbp]

What a treat! Hopefully you end up loaded with females . Great work. Have you made any changes from how you keep them compared to your first pp group?

 

[MichaelS]

I'll bet that two or three of the smaller ones are female. For some reason the females grow slower in the first couple of years.

Yeah that is what I'm hoping for

'2 Dot Front' is showing some early signs of female tendencies compared to the others... slower growth; shorter, fatter tail; more shy behavior. 3 Dot is similar in those respects but not as much so and Heart Side even less so.

My supper early prediction of their sexes based on these 3 factors in my personal experience; growth rate, tail size/shape relative to the others; behavior (bold vs timid) are:

Chip - male
Flo - male
1 Dot Butt - male
2 Dot Front- female
3 Dot - leaning towards female
Heart Side - 50/50


It will be fun to see how these hold up over time.

 

[MichaelS]

Have you made any changes from how you keep them compared to your first pp group?

I have this group in the exact same set up as my others. The only change I made was switching from coco coir (supper messy) to coco chips (less messy). Diet is the same with about 50% soaked Mazuri and 50% grass/weeds/ leaves etc. They get daily soaks. Humidity in their basking side is 90 - 95%. I had very good success in the past with the current set up so I see no reason to change it.

 

[diamondbp]

I have this group in the exact same set up as my others. The only change I made was switching from coco coir (supper messy) to coco chips (less messy). Diet is the same with about 50% soaked Mazuri and 50% grass/weeds/ leaves etc. They get daily soaks. Humidity in their basking side is 90 - 95%. I had very good success in the past with the current set up so I see no reason to change it.

That's a high percent of mazuri and it seems to be yielding good results for you. I may have to step up my mazuri game. They usually get mazuri every 3 days for my group.
Are the coco chips easy for them to walk on? That was a concern for me when I first saw them.

 

[Slow and steady]

"Are the coco chips easy for them to walk on? That was a concern for me when I first saw them."

Hey Byron, I have a couple of little ones on the coco chips. What I've found is that once the chips are moistened, they gain a little weight, and compact to some degree. My littles get around just fine and don't struggle at all with it.

 

[MichaelS]

What 'Slow and steady' said. They get around just fine on the chips. They are not as 'chippy' as the images on the packaging illustrate. There is a lot of small fibers etc in there. Here is a photo in real life with a little one on them for scale.

 

[MichaelS]

Here is the link for coco chips that I use:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049XH0F...t=&hvlocphy=9012082&hvtargid=pla-350733016681

 

[MichaelS]

Here is their growth chart in grams and the percent in body weight increase since last weigh in.

Growth Chart:



And a sun bath group shot

 

[Tom]

Michael has generously granted me permission to use his thread here to mention that if any one wants South African leopard babies of their own, I should have a whole bunch of them hatching all through January and February of 2018. All from the same parents as Michael's tortoises on this thread.

Please message me in a "conversation" if you are interested, so we don't clutter Michael's thread.

 

[MichaelS]

Here are some random outside photos of the group enjoying a little sunshine...






One thinks he is hiding the other IS hiding.

 

[MichaelS]

This group seems to really go after the cuttlebone when they are in the natural sunlight even though I always have some in their indoor enclosure with UVB light. I've noticed it with some others but not to this extent.

 

[diamondbp]

This group seems to really go after the cuttlebone when they are in the natural sunlight even though I always have some in their indoor enclosure with UVB light. I've noticed it with some others but not to this extent.View attachment 226652

There are ALMOST big enough to ship to me now . I guess I’ll let you grow them out a little more first [emoji13]

 

[MichaelS]

There are ALMOST big enough to ship to me now . I guess I’ll let you grow them out a little more first [emoji13]

Haha... I'll send you any extra males from this group... for fair market price