My family and I need some serious help with a russian

[imgliniel]

Hello all,

Can I say to start off I am SOOOOO happy to have found a tortoise forum where I can ask questions. My family needs some serious tortoise help and I am hoping I can get some practical answers here instead of continuing to read until my eyes fall out!

Ok, here is the backround information (this is not going to be pretty and it will be long, don't say I did not warn you!). Sometime I think about 5 years ago, when my sisters were still in high school, my dad and my two sisters came home from a pet shop with two russian tortoises. There was one boy and one girl and they were named Boysenberry and Strawberry respectively. I don't remember what the first cage/terrerium or whatever it was that we had for them, but for the last several years and basically as long as I remeber they have lived in the outdoor cage that our dad built. It was wooden and they filled it with (rockhard and bone dry) dirt from the backyard, made a somewhat underground box/house/hide, and kept a shallow water bowl in there. They were fed turtle pellets and various veggies that my mom got from a good for turtles list somewhere. This is in southern Ca and the temps get to a bit over 100 in summer during the hottest days and it gets into the 30s on rare nights in winter, with the low 50's being the average.

From what I am reading now this was basically terrible (especially moisture wise!) Recently the female Strawberry passed away. My dad had made a new enclosure but not put sides on it, we are not sure if it was the heat (it has been in the hundreds lately) or a predator (my mother said she looked like something had gotten to her). Well all three of us children have moved out and it has just been my mom and dad caring for them since neither of my sisters, who's pets they were, were really stable enough to take them. Now they are more stable and my parents are sending boysenberry home with them. We are all kind of determined to do better and since I am the animal care/nutrition enthusiast in the bunch I am trying to gather as much info as I can. My one sister says his shell is flaking off in one spot or something like that (waiting on pics) so I KNOW he is not healthy. My first thing was to tell them to take him to a reptile vet NOW! Barring that being done, we need to figure out how best to house him, what to feed him, everything! Since any limited research on them had been done by our mom preciously.

I would like to discuss one thing at a time if that possible so as to not get overwhelmed. But feel free to ask questions etc I'll tell you what I can I don't really have all the info though.

My first question is about enclosures, or more accurately about where to house him. Given the temps in the area (average 90's high in the summer, some days over 100, average low in winter low 50's high 40's, with a few really cold night in the high 30's) can he be housed outside year round and be healthy? Could it be done with some special accomodations? (A heated hide in the winter, a mister/cooling fan in the summer) or would he be better kept indoors? I know sunlight is important and if kept indoors we would like to make an outdoor run to let him into when people are home. But what you have to understand is that schedules for them can be erratic, so there is no garuntee of someone being home to move him at certain times from one place to another. So his enclosure needs to be one he COULD live in 24/7 365. Then other special excursions can be made when people are home without him being dependant on it.

Sorry for such a long post, and internet cookies for anyone that makes it through all that.

 

[dmmj]

They can indeed live outside year round, but with the smaller species ( ie russians) it is often easier to make a smaller indoor habitat. During summer time provide hides and lots of shade, and there should be no problem.

 

[gerberwoman]

welcome to the forum! i am also in southern california, in newbury park. i had two russians for a little while two years ago and they did great in a home-made outdoor enclosure, although i did bring them in at night fearing raccoons and coyotes and rats. i gave them up when i lost my house but now, different house and a few years later we are taking care of two 50 year old calif desert tortoises and a ornate box turtle who was retired from the oxnard gulls wing childrens museum.
glad to help if i can, your post was great, he is very lucky to have you looking out for him!

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome, Inglinial!

I'm a big advocate of outside habitats for ALL turtles and tortoises. With the Steppe tortoise, because they're such good diggers and climbers, you have to take some precautionary steps to assure that the tortoise can't escape the habitat, but outside is always better.

Its pretty hot here too (Central Calif.), with 109F yesterday. My steppe tortoises have a nice, large pen with plenty of tall grass and several large clusters of broad-leaf plantain, and at one end is a nice shade tree. The tortoises dig down into the ground at the base of a plant until they are completely covered. The heat doesn't seem to bother them down there.

If your ground is very hard, you may have to incorporate some fill dirt into it. Something to make it a bit easier for the tortoise to dig into. Then plant some plants and weeds for cover. A nice shade tree on the west side would be nice too.

If you are worried about night time predators, you can just box up the tortoise in a cardboard box each night and put him back out in the morning.

 

[lynnedit]

Check out this web site:
http://russiantortoise.net/

Be sure to pay attention to the food list: they do the best on weeds, and dark leafy greens, Optunia cactus. Fruits and vegetables like beans, etc., are not good for them.

Sun is definitely best, no doubt.
Your tort may be dehydrated if the weather is too hot. Try soaking him in warm water in a shallow water dish, baby warm water, for a few days.

You don't have to get fancy: a large enough outside enclosure with improved dirt (add organic soil and gravel in some areas), with a couple of hides and some plants and shrubs. It does sound as if your tort needs protection against predators so plan to do as Yvonne suggests at night. They must also have sun and deep shade so they can self regulate. If they get too hot, they will just bake.

There are a lot of knowledgable keepers on this site, several in your area, to provide advice about keeping a Russian in your climate.

Good luck!

 

[imgliniel]

thank you all,

So it sounds like outside year round should be no problem. The thing is we will be building from scratch because the backyard is more like a back patio, it is all tile save for a small dirt planter/border around the edges. So we can't really just enclose an area of dirt, haha. We will basically be making something like a raised planter box.

If he is outside year round assuming we provide lots of shade and hides to keep cool and a full san basking spot in the summer, in the winter will he need any additional heat since it will drop down into forties occassionally at night? We do get winter days in the 80's, but 70 is more average and when it rains sixties and fifties are not uncommon in the daytime (just for the brief rainy period of the year). I don't want to risk him trying to hibernate then it gets warmer he wakes up then it gets cold and he tried to hibernate, etc etc. I am pretty sure that would mess with him won't it?

With regards to predators, my parents live in a rural area, my sisters live a block or two from Disneyland. There won't really be the kinds of predators there that there are at my moms. The problem with the box him up at night thing is sometimes no one is home until midnight. Or they are away overnight, etc etc. There is no garuntee that at dusk someone will be home to move him, and no garuntee that at dawn someone could put him out. We plan to make a fully covered with wire very predator proof enclosure if he is going outside.

Next question, moisture! I see alot that you should use a substrate that can be kept moist (like the sand coir mixture). If we are doing an outdoor pen what do we do for this? Do we keep all his dirt/substrate moist year round? In basking spots and shady spots? In his hide(s)? Or do we just put out a good wading pool for him to drink/bath in? What about in winter when it is raining? Just let it rain on him? Or should there be a covered dry area as well for him to get out of the moisture?

 

[Yvonne G]

When we advocate moisture for tortoises, its mainly in their first year of life. After that, a waterer big enough for the tortoise to get all the way into is fine, coupled with occasional forced soaks.

Steppe tortoises are pretty cold hardy, and temps in the 40's probably would be ok with maybe just a red/black light in the tortoise's house.

 

[imgliniel]

When we advocate moisture for tortoises, its mainly in their first year of life. After that, a waterer big enough for the tortoise to get all the way into is fine, coupled with occasional forced soaks.

Steppe tortoises are pretty cold hardy, and temps in the 40's probably would be ok with maybe just a red/black light in the tortoise's house.

Ok, I am confused... Is a Russian tortoise and a Steppe tortoise the same thing?

 

[dmmj]

Yvonne is trying to bring sexy back by referring to them by their original name steppe, russian, steppe horsefield, all russian. The main predator you will have to worry about in the city is the raccoon, they do exist even in the happiest place on earth. A hide with a close able/lockable door.

 

[imgliniel]

ahh I see, thanks. lol

also, what is a red/black light? Is it the same as the blacklight used at parties to make things glow etc? Or is it something else reptile specific?

 

[lynnedit]

Just an incandescent red or black bulb. the wattage will depend on the size of your lockable hide.

The link I listed above has a nice description of setting up a Rubbermaid deck box with a bulb.

They do need cold/warm and dry/wet choices: sunny with gravel or pavers, shady with plants. They do need to be able to stay dry especially when it is wet. You can cover part of the dirt area with a clear product like plexiglass, then the warm hide is also an escape. In mild rain, they can hide under a plant like a hosta.