My mom's tortoise seems unhappy to me

[Laine]

Still processing a lot of that information lol, in the meantime, my postal code is T5L 1R6.
Also, what tank measurements would be ideal right now?
Thanks again everyone! Will reply again in a bit after reading the replies more in depth and doing a bit of my own research as well.

 

[Rue]

The bigger the better. The smallest footprint recommendation (at least for a Hermann's or Russian) is 4' X 8' for an indoor enclosure.

A tank is too small for an adult of any species. A converted bookshelf is one option. Building something from plywood (and sealing it for moisture) is another.

If you search 'indoor enclosures' you'll get all sorts of ideas.

 

[sibi]

What are the measurements of the current tank? Ideally, the idea of a converted bookshelf would be good. In the meantime, though, for right now, if you give me the hight, length, and width we can determine if she can stay there until you get a bigger enclosure set up.

 

[Yvonne G]

Everyone is offering good and correct advice, but I think you need to bear in mind this isn't your tortoise. Do what you can for the tortoise, but I wouldn't make any changes to the container. Just clean it out and add a good substrate and try to steer your mom in the right direction when she comes home to take over the tortoise's care.

 

[Laine]

If I had to guess the measurements of the tank I would say that is is 5 feet in length, 1.5 feet wide, and maybe 2-3 feet tall. I should mention I am terrible at estimating measurements lol.

 

[sibi]

You are absolutely right Yvonne. In the end, its the mom that has to learn how to provide a healthy environment for her tort. Having said that, though, if you got the few things necessary to improve the environment (minus the bookshelf ), that would go a long way to easing your mom in the right direction.

 

[Laine]

Hello everyone!

Sorry I haven't checked in, I haven't forgotten though!

So I've spoken to my Mom and told her she needs to make some changes. She agrees. However, she still doesn't seem willing to make the PROPER changes. I don't know how to get through to her. I told her she needs a different substrate and she replied, "I don't like the smell of the coconut husk one, and it will be "too hard" for her to walk through the forest floor one and she might eat some of it". She seems DEAD SET on peat moss and says her tortoise likes it the most....

Then, I suggested we should build a proper enclosure, together, so that we can get the humidity and temperature right. I showed her some that are here on the forum, most of which are made of wood, and she just immediately shoots the idea down. She said wood will rot... But doesn't putting a sealant help to stop the wood rotting?

It seemed like she was annoyed and she said, "the tortoise we had growing up didn't need all this special instructions" (like calcium and humidity and UVB). Then she tells me that tortoise lived in a kids plastic play pool and that is what she wants to do for her tortoise now (rather than build a closed chamber).

I don't even know how to help her at this point. I told her to get a UVB lamp and I'm sure she still hasn't. I am going to go buy one myself right away here. Hopefully she added some variety in the diet as well... She did say she put a pinch of calcium powder so at least she did that!

What are your thoughts on the peat moss substrate ? The wood rotting? Can we use a kids plastic pool? Also, for the UVB lamp, does it need to be the long lightbulb or can it be the spiral looking one that just goes in a normal light fixture? Also, I have this "herptivite multivitamin" powder I give to my leopard gecko, can the tortoise have that powder too or is it unsafe or unnecessary?

Thanks! Hope to hear from you guys!

 

[Yvonne G]

Remind your mom that tortoises can live to be 100 years of age. Then ask how long the tortoise she had growing up lasted.

 

[MPRC]

I use kiddie pools as temporary enclosures, it may be a lesser evil if she won't upgrade to something wood. Maybe she could get a piece of plexiglass to cover the top?
Also the coil bulbs are junk. You may be able to get an MVB bulb that does heat and UVB and has a longer usable life than the strip bulbs.

Peat moss isn't terrible, you just have to make sure the top layer is not soaking wet or the tort will get shell rot.

 

[Rue]

It's good that your Mom is open to suggestions.

I think the plastic wading pool is a good idea. This is an older animal it doesn't need a closed chamber anymore. What damage has occurred can't be undone, you can only try and improve the situation for the animals from here on in.

The peat moss is fine. I used peat mixed with orchid bark in my outdoor enclosure and my Hermann's did well in it. It should be keep consistently moist, NOT soaking wet.

Get the MV UVB bulb - with a sturdy tip-proof hanger/stand. Avoid the CF.

Any calcium powder should be fine. Dust the food 2X a week.

 

[crimson_lotus]

Tell your mom to not pour the dirty water into the peat moss and she can keep the substrate, the only thing wrong with what she's doing is that it's way too wet.

Also, the tortoise she had growing up should still be alive if taken proper care of.

Calcium powder is great, but not beneficial unless paired with UVB to help absorb. I understand this is pretty frustrating, and I know how stubborn people can be (especially family) but please just show her a picture of what a Redfoot should look like. Metabolic Bone Disease is very painful to have, can eventually lead to loss of strength in their legs (so they can't walk) and, well, death.

A simple mixed greens container from the grocery store is better than what she is being fed now.

So basically, the most important things to stress with her would be to clean out the water and not dump it into the substrate, keep the substrate fairly dry, get a uvb lamp, and add more variety in her food.

 

[crimson_lotus]

I used tinfoil to cover the top of my enclosure when I had her in a plastic bin. It's a cheap and effective way to keep the humidity and heat in

and for wood rotting - I lined the inside of Charlotte's (my tortoise) enclosure with pond liner from Lowe's. It's been 3 years and no mold. You could also stain the wood as you have already mentioned.

A kiddie pool outside in warm weather for the tortoise sounds like a pretty good idea. For winter, nope, not so much at all.

What I did with one of my friends who had a water turtle that wasn't in a great environment - drop hints, give suggestions that don't break their wallet, and if all else fails and you don't mind, you can buy the most important things for them. My friend now has a uvb bulb, a basking spot, a brand new and larger tank, and a canister filter

 

[sibi]

Hello everyone!

Sorry I haven't checked in, I haven't forgotten though!

So I've spoken to my Mom and told her she needs to make some changes. She agrees. However, she still doesn't seem willing to make the PROPER changes. I don't know how to get through to her. I told her she needs a different substrate and she replied, "I don't like the smell of the coconut husk one, and it will be "too hard" for her to walk through the forest floor one and she might eat some of it". She seems DEAD SET on peat moss and says her tortoise likes it the most....

Then, I suggested we should build a proper enclosure, together, so that we can get the humidity and temperature right. I showed her some that are here on the forum, most of which are made of wood, and she just immediately shoots the idea down. She said wood will rot... But doesn't putting a sealant help to stop the wood rotting?

It seemed like she was annoyed and she said, "the tortoise we had growing up didn't need all this special instructions" (like calcium and humidity and UVB). Then she tells me that tortoise lived in a kids plastic play pool and that is what she wants to do for her tortoise now (rather than build a closed chamber).

I don't even know how to help her at this point. I told her to get a UVB lamp and I'm sure she still hasn't. I am going to go buy one myself right away here. Hopefully she added some variety in the diet as well... She did say she put a pinch of calcium powder so at least she did that!

What are your thoughts on the peat moss substrate ? The wood rotting? Can we use a kids plastic pool? Also, for the UVB lamp, does it need to be the long lightbulb or can it be the spiral looking one that just goes in a normal light fixture? Also, I have this "herptivite multivitamin" powder I give to my leopard gecko, can the tortoise have that powder too or is it unsafe or unnecessary?

Thanks! Hope to hear from you guys!

You know, at this point, even though you said you have a lot on your plate, this tortoise would be in better hands with you than with her. I'm really sad for that tortoise! It has suffered and will continue to suffer unless she or you do something to help this animal. If you can't convince her of what's best for this tortoise, nothing anyone says here will make a bit of difference.

 

[Fredkas]

I do hope you can take the tort with you... but yes you are too busy and hectic already. but maybe the tort will not really take your time when everything is set right.

 

[Laine]

It's not even so much about time, as I don't think the tortoise would take that much time at all, I just don't even have the room... I have a large tank with an axolotl inside, and also a smaller one for my gecko. I have a small 2 bedroom rental place and it just doesn't allow for another tank I would actually LOVE to take the tortoise and nurse her back to health but space doesn't allow me. My mom would also resent me for it, I believe. I told her she should consider giving the tortoise to someone who can care for her properly and she said she doesn't want to, and that she wants to make the necessary changes, but then it doesn't seem like she is actually willing, or maybe I just overwhelmed her. I am fully willing to set up an entire enclosure for her, I really don't mind... But any idea I gave, she has some sort of remark as to why it hasn't worked in the past, "She doesn't like dark greens, she only likes iceberg" and, "she can't have any caves or hides in there because she just barrels through them" and so on...

Just seems a bit hopeless and I had a good cry to a friend over the fact that my mom is neglecting this tortoise and agrees it needs help but doesn't seem willing. She thinks she knows better than people who have been raising healthy, happy tortoises. It is very frustrating because I am completely against animal cruelty and it is happening within my own family

 

[MPRC]

Could you maybe print out a caresheet for her to look at on her own time so she doesn't have to be defensive. Someone here probably has extra info on health issues and can include images of healthy vs. sick tortoises.

 

[Fredkas]

It sucks i can't do anything about this. i just sit here and read. gosh.
You have nice heart.
Please keep updating and sharing about this whenever you feel necessary.

 

[domagoj]

I know how hard this must be for you. I have the same problem with my brother. He gets a pet, cares for it properly for a month and then totally neglects it. Then I can't stand it anymore so I take over. Now my room is full of animals( not that I complain).

 

[sue white]

This is just my experience. I've seen this with animal hoarders. They shut you out when you try, as you see it, to help. They view it as criticism . Once the change is there they love it. Sometimes the best way to deal with a situation like this is to just start changing it's environment FOR yourself. Make it seem that she would be doing you a favor by letting you get involved. I use the "I'd like to see if this is true about what they say about ..." or "let me try this and see what might happen..."statement .This takes her out of the stress of decision making . Then add something like a UVB light. Wait some time (weeks maybe) and then add another thing. If your willing to put out the money to start the changes she might get into it. Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Laine]

I have found a used 24" UVB light fixture, wondering if that is a good size to get? Going to order a uvb bulb off amazon, as well as a ceramic heat emitter... And some cypress mulch to put on top of the peat moss. Or no? Bad idea?