My tortoise has an allergy? Pet Cedar Shavings from Lowes

[arami25]

Hi!

I'm Sunshine's owner, she's a 2 yr old Russian Tortoise I got from Repticon back in October 2018. She's super cute and has a little sass to her personality. I've been keeping her in a large storage bin next to my bed. The substrate I have right now is a mix of organic top soil and "pet" cedar shavings that I bought from Lowes. The reason I put "pet" is because I've seen that a lot of people say cedar is bad for tortoises, yet I am confused why they sell this for other animals.

Lately she has been digging herself deep into the substrate and Georgia had some big drops of temperatures so I think the drastic changes in temperature at night might have given her a cold. I am taking her to the vet on Monday but as of now she has been eating, pooping, peeing, and walks around just fine. She doesn't have a runny nose BUT it sounds like she has a mild stuffy nose. I am concerned that because she's been digging a lot lately that the cedar is affecting her now. She wasn't showing any signs of mucus drainage or nose irritation the months before so I am not sure if I should just dump out all her substrate and just use the organic top soil.


Here are the substrates I used:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EcoScraps-32-Quart-Organic-Container-Mix/999990018
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dog-Kennel-Cedar-Shavings/50006484

 

[wellington]

Pet stores sell cedar too. It's bad for most if not all animals. Places sell for the money not because they care or know about animals.
Stop using the cedar. The info from actual pet owners will be the best for your animal. We aren't making money off of our advice like places selling things.
Also take a look at the Russian caresheet. An adult Russian needs a 4x8 enclosure as a minimum.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Cedar is no good, if home Depot or Lowe's is your only option then get a bag of Cypress mulch and welcome to the forum from a Gwinnett county neighbor

 

[arami25]

Thanks! I will get rid of the cedar, is the top soil still okay for her?
I will also find a way to get a bigger enclosure. I don't live in a house unfortunately.

 

[Ray--Opo]

Thanks! I will get rid of the cedar, is the top soil still okay for her?
I will also find a way to get a bigger enclosure. I don't live in a house unfortunately.

You can use coco coir then cypress mulch on top. Not sure about topsoil but as long as it doesn't have fertilizers in it like a miracle grow type.
Didn't see how you are heating the enclosure. What are the temperatures in the enclosure?

 

[arami25]

Yeah it doesn’t have any fertilizer. And the enclosure has one heat lamp focused on one area as a basking spot. The other is the UVB bulb. Both of these bulbs were purchased at the repticon when I got her. I believe the temperature in that area is around upper 80’s. My room stays in the mid 70’s right now that it’s cold outside.

Here are the bulbs and a photo of how close the heat lamp is
I got a tape measure out and it’s about 9 in from the substrate

 

[pguinpro]

That white stuff in the soil is peralite, next time you get soil make sure it doesnt have that. Tortoises often get dirt mixed in with their food, last thing you want is peralite being part of the diet. When peralite is heated sufficiently it expands.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Cedar is used for small mammals because it helps mask the smell of their poop.
The oils are harmful for most other animals.
I use Orchid bark.
But certainly anything already recommended would be a much better alternative.

 

[arami25]

That white stuff in the soil is peralite, next time you get soil make sure it doesnt have that. Tortoises often get dirt mixed in with their food, last thing you want is peralite being part of the diet. When peralite is heated sufficiently it expands.

Will do thanks

 

[Tom]

You are making every mistake there is. Wrong substrate, wrong heat bulb, wrong UV bulb, wrong size enclsoure, wrong way of setting bulb height... What are you feeding the tortoise? Are you soaking the tortoise regularly?

I say these things not to be mean, but so that you know what to fix. Pet stores and most of the people at Repticon type shows have no idea what they are talking about and they parrot the same wrong info and offer the same wrong products that have been used for decades. Rather than type it all up again, item by item, all the info you need about temperatures, substrate, food and enclosure size can be found right here:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698

Also, don't waste your time and money with a vet. Most of them know nothing about tortoise care and almost all of them will want to do things that are bad for your tortoise, and then charge you money for it. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. If the vet offer a "vitamin injection" politely decline and realize that you have found one of the many vets that doesn't know how to care for tortoises.

Please read those links, and then come back with all your questions. We are happy to help improve the situation, and we all love to talk tortoises.

 

[Loohan]

Cedar is used for small mammals because it helps mask the smell of their poop.
The oils are harmful for most other animals.

I am shocked they still sell this stuff for pets! I thought that went out of style long ago.
In the mid-90s i had pet rats and didn't know better. It is NOT OK for small mammals either! The rats had chronic pink oozing snot.

 

[Tom]

I am shocked they still sell this stuff for pets! I thought that went out of style long ago.
In the mid-90s i had pet rats and didn't know better. It is NOT OK for small mammals either! The rats had chronic pink oozing snot.

We sold it at the pet stores that I worked at and it had a cartoonish picture of a bunch of small animals on the package. I had to explain this to customers over and over again. Their answer was always, "then why do you sell it?" My answer was that we sold it, and I personally used it, to refill the stuffing in dog beds as a flea repellent. It worked well for that purpose and didn't bother the dogs since it was a small amount and they were still breathing air that was open to the room. I eventually convinced the management to move it out of the small animal section and into the dog section.

 

[Tom]

Lately she has been digging herself deep into the substrate and Georgia had some big drops of temperatures so I think the drastic changes in temperature at night might have given her a cold.

A couple other points to ponder:

1. When we get a "cold" it is a virus that has infected us and gained a temporary foothold. Tortoises don't get "colds". When they get sick, it is typically a bacterial infection, most commonly referred to as a "respiratory infection".
2. Wild animals, as in non-domesticated animals, do not usually show any sign of allergies. Survival in the wild is very tough for all animals, and any hint of sickness or weakness would result in a quick death one way or another. Allergy symptoms of any kind would prevent the survival and ability to reproduce of any wild animal. Natural selection precludes and tendency toward what we call "allergies" in wild animals.

 

[Dobiemom]

Hi!

I'm Sunshine's owner, she's a 2 yr old Russian Tortoise I got from Repticon back in October 2018. She's super cute and has a little sass to her personality. I've been keeping her in a large storage bin next to my bed. The substrate I have right now is a mix of organic top soil and "pet" cedar shavings that I bought from Lowes. The reason I put "pet" is because I've seen that a lot of people say cedar is bad for tortoises, yet I am confused why they sell this for other animals.

Lately she has been digging herself deep into the substrate and Georgia had some big drops of temperatures so I think the drastic changes in temperature at night might have given her a cold. I am taking her to the vet on Monday but as of now she has been eating, pooping, peeing, and walks around just fine. She doesn't have a runny nose BUT it sounds like she has a mild stuffy nose. I am concerned that because she's been digging a lot lately that the cedar is affecting her now. She wasn't showing any signs of mucus drainage or nose irritation the months before so I am not sure if I should just dump out all her substrate and just use the organic top soil.


Here are the substrates I used:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EcoScraps-32-Quart-Organic-Container-Mix/999990018
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dog-Kennel-Cedar-Shavings/50006484
View attachment 263200 View attachment 263201 View attachment 263202

My Russian torts are inside in the winter. I use alfalfa rabbit pellets as substrate. Not very attractive but safe in my opinion. I have lost two bearded dragons due to sand compaction so I am not a fan of the sand. I have a 100lb Sulcata inside in the winter also

 

[TechnoCheese]

My Russian torts are inside in the winter. I use alfalfa rabbit pellets as substrate. Not very attractive but safe in my opinion. I have lost two bearded dragons due to sand compaction so I am not a fan of the sand. I have a 100lb Sulcata inside in the winter also

Definitely not safe. Rabbit pellets are way too dry, and mold when wet. You should be using a deep, damp layer of coco coir, fine grade orchid bark, or cypress mulch.

Be sure to give these a read-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

I noticed you said “torts”. If they are two being housed together, please keep in mind that tortoises are solitary, territorial animals that should never be kept in pairs, and they need to be separated

 

[waretrop]

I owned many pet shops for over 25 years...I kept about 4 small bags of cedar chips on my shelves only to teach some of the customers who picked it up...I would tell them why NOT to buy it for ANYONE....It kills moths in cedar closets...just think about that......I had 100 pine chips and other things for substrate on my shelves for whatever animal you could have...That was 20 and 30 years ago....hasn't anyone in the pet industry learned yet????

 

[arami25]

I posted another thread in the introductions forum about where I could find coconut coir in bulk at a reasonable price. I am leaning to this website that is selling their bricks for 9.99 for 11 lbs.
https://www.earthscapeusa.com/onlin...vG9_W6Lq13MzhspCRAYQobsgbJqPRaDIaAs4OEALw_wcB

I just bought a 6ft diameter kiddie pool to upgrade her enclosure. I'm really trying to make Sunshine's situation better. After the substrate I will work on the lighting. I am still debating on whether to invest and try to set up the UVB long tubes or a mercury vapor bulb or invest in a Powersun bulb. I don't have tools like a powerdrill or anything to build a wooden frame to suspend the light. I think trying to go about building that would end up costing me more AND I am moving again to another apartment in September 2019. Sooooo I could really use some advice. Also, would the kiddy pool have to be covered? Or just her hide?

 

[TechnoCheese]

I posted another thread in the introductions forum about where I could find coconut coir in bulk at a reasonable price. I am leaning to this website that is selling their bricks for 9.99 for 11 lbs.
https://www.earthscapeusa.com/onlin...vG9_W6Lq13MzhspCRAYQobsgbJqPRaDIaAs4OEALw_wcB

I just bought a 6ft diameter kiddie pool to upgrade her enclosure. I'm really trying to make Sunshine's situation better. After the substrate I will work on the lighting. I am still debating on whether to invest and try to set up the UVB long tubes or a mercury vapor bulb or invest in a Powersun bulb. I don't have tools like a powerdrill or anything to build a wooden frame to suspend the light. I think trying to go about building that would end up costing me more AND I am moving again to another apartment in September 2019. Sooooo I could really use some advice. Also, would the kiddy pool have to be covered? Or just her hide?

A 6 foot in diameter is roughly 28 square feet, so it would definitely work.

I would get a tube uvb. They last much longer than MVBs, cover more area, and are less desiccating. You can get fittings or a hood for a tube uvb at a hardware store instead of the pet store. Be sure to check online or on chewy.com for cheap uvbs, and always look for sales. I got a 1.5 foot long uvb light and hood for 20$ in total on Black Friday for my bearded dragon.

For the lamp stand, try using PVC pipes or just buying a zoo med lamp stand.

The kiddy pool would not have to be covered.

 

[arami25]

Okay thank you and how high off the ground should that light be? The pool is 1 foot high. Is that a good height for the uvb light to hang?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Okay thank you and how high off the ground should that light be? The pool is 1 foot high. Is that a good height for the uvb light to hang?

The pool might be 1 foot high, but if you take substrate into account, the sides will be shorter. The lights should be about a foot from the substrate, yes.