Need help on building an indoor enclosure

[SidGo]

Hey guys so im planning on making an indoor enclosure for my 1 baby redfoot and 1 yearling. I've been thinking about what i need and i hop you guys can help me out
So im planning to make the enclosure 4ft by 4ft and around 26inches high minus 6inches of substrate. I was thinking of making it a closed enclosure with glass on the top for viewing. So heres what i was thinking for the inside

Lighting
-going to use ceramic light sockets
Im planning to use Arcadia D3 12%% UVB T8 Bulb - 24" for the uv and incandescent heat bulb. I already have a mercury vapor bulb and i was wondering if i could use it along with the other 2 bulbs. I also plan on using a ceramic heat emitter 150w or 100w. Temp around here is usually around 79 to 86F.
Do i need a basking area for redfoots?
Do i also need reflectors for the light?
How do i position my lights?. Do i put the uv and incandescent at one side with the mercury vapor on 1 corner and the ceramic somewhere in between?

Ventilation
-I plan on putting ventilation holes on the upper part of the enclosure but i heard that would create a chimney effect or something and bring the hot air up along with the humidity. So should where should i put holes for ventilation? Do i need to install a fan?

Substrate
-The substrate i plan to use is coco peat, spagnum moss and cypress mulch. Im probably going to use the cocopeat as the base and use the cypress mulch and moss on the top layer

Hides and Dishes
-I plan to use clay plant pots submerge half way in the substrate as their hides but im confuse if i should put 2 soaking areas and 2 food plates for the tortoises.

Plants
-I want to add some live plants in the enclosure but i have no clue on what plants to get that are safe and that can survive in closed enclosure. I was thinking ferns and cactuses but i read somewhere that cactuses dont do good in humid environments.

I hope i didnt miss anything and i hope you guys could help me out with this please. I want the enclosure to be perfect for the little guys and sorry for the long post.

 

[Bambam1989]

It's not a good idea to put a baby tortoise in with a larger tort. The bigger is going to likely bully the lil one. Your baby won't thrive. Honestly, unless it's for breeding purposes you should not keep them together even if they were the same size.
I don't know about the dimensions but it actually sounds small for a permanent enclosure..
There are entire threads on here in the enclosure section about lighting that can explain. There is a redfoot care sheet in the species specific too.. ugh I'm on my cell and it won't let me post the links.
Plants! I seem to be becoming obsessed with tort friendly plants. Sedge grass- they might nibble it but probably won't destroy it cause it's not supper yummy. Spider plants would be great. Boston ferns are good. Might look into air plants, hostas, and some bromeliads. Have you been to http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/index.php#.WeoZn8plDqA (I have this link saved so my phone cooperated)

 

[SidGo]

@Bambam1989 I was actually wondering the same thing about keeping them together but i've also read about redfoots being able to thrive in communities. I read about bullying also which is why i asked if i should get 2 water dishes and 2 food dishes to avoid it from happening. I am not making this as a permanent enclosure but i plan to put them in it for a couple of years till i can find a suitable place for them outdoors.
I've read threads on lighting in enclosures but the informations i get are either contradicting one another or i just dont get it sometimes haha which is why i hope someone could help me out on the lighting part here.

Yes! i have actually scan through their whole section from A to Z and it was a very fun read. I do have some plants in mind but my concern is that if they'll be able to grow and survive in a closed indoor enclosure

 

[Bambam1989]

@Bambam1989 I was actually wondering the same thing about keeping them together but i've also read about redfoots being able to thrive in communities. I read about bullying also which is why i asked if i should get 2 water dishes and 2 food dishes to avoid it from happening. I am not making this as a permanent enclosure but i plan to put them in it for a couple of years till i can find a suitable place for them outdoors.
I've read threads on lighting in enclosures but the informations i get are either contradicting one another or i just dont get it sometimes haha which is why i hope someone could help me out on the lighting part here.

Yes! i have actually scan through their whole section from A to Z and it was a very fun read. I do have some plants in mind but my concern is that if they'll be able to grow and survive in a closed indoor enclosure

Community I believe is three or more torts. In a pair the aggressor only has one "victim" and that Lil guy is going to spend all his time trying to avoid the big guy and will not thrive properly. In larger groups the dominant tort or torts have multiple targets, and so aggression is more evenly distributed. Even in communities your torts will be stressed unless a large enough enclosure is provided. They are solitary animals and need an area to be alone.
The plants I mentioned should do ok in a closed chamber.

 

[SidGo]

Well would a divider be able to address the issue on bullying?

 

[Bambam1989]

You would have to make the enclosure larger I think. But it could work if you plan it out right.

 

[Anyfoot]

Hi there @SidGo

How old is your baby, can I see s photo of them both please. If I was you I would add a 3rd tort, that erases any 1 on 1 bullying.

If you have space make your enclosure a rectangle shape 2x8ft, 3x6ft or 4x8ft for example. The length helps create a gradient in heat and light. It also lets your torts get away from each other when they want alone time.

Enclosure needs to be an enclosed type to maintain an ambient temp and correct humidity level.

This is what I would do in a 2x8ft enclosure.
Make enclosure 2ft high.

Substrate wants to be a 3 to 4" layer of moist coir. With a layer of orchid bark and/or Cyprus mulch on that. (Line the bottom of your enclosure with a pond liner).
For lighting I would use a 24" tube light, set that in the middle of the enclosure so each end is darker(put the light width ways in the enclosure. Put this on a timer, on for 12 to 14hrs a day.
For heat I would use 2x 150w CHE's. Put these either side of the light on a thermostat. Aim for 86f under the CHE's and 80f at the darker ends. You may have to moving the CHE's away from the light until you get the temp gradient right. Keep the CHE's as high as possible, you don't want anything drying out your torts carapaces, no incandescent lights or basking lights.
The humidity will come from the substrate and water evaporating from your water dishes. Start off with 2 water dishes, if struggling with humidity add a 3rd. Humidity wants to be 80%+.
Feed on a slate under the uvb light.
Put hides at each end with moist moss in and around them.
Forget live plants, they get eaten, trampled on, or just die in such a small enclosed space. It's not worth the hassle.

For your viewing I'd have sliding glass doors on the top half of the front of the enclosure.
Check all temps and humidity with digital gauges at tortoise level.

Good luck.

 

[SidGo]

@Bambam1989 Thanks i'll keep that in mind although i really plan to make an outdoor enclosure for them when they get bigger.

@Anyfoot My baby is around 4-5 months old when i got him/her. The pictures of my torts are on my phone and im on the pc right now typing this but i'll post pics of them later. I really would like to get more redfoots and have a whole battalion of them walking around but im on a students budget so i'll have to take things slowly but yeah hopefully i can take care of more of them in the future

Thanks i really didnt think that the shape of the enclosure would be a factor in terms of heat and other stuff. Still need to do more research i guess. I decided on the 3x6ft one although i'll try seeing if i can fit a 4x8ft anywhere inside the house haha

I read that it need to be enclose but i worry that there wont be enough airflow around the enclosure and from what i read it stimulates the growth of germs and stuff not sure though. Should i put some ventilation holes around the enclosure or just make it totally enclosed?

Regarding the substrate. Should i worry if small white bugs start roaming around the soil?

Do i still need a reflector for the tube light? And i read about this T8 and T5 thing regarding the tube lights but it seems that T5 is better than T8 so why do they still bother selling T8's? Does it have its own benefits that T5 cant give?

Can you recommend me a thermostat that i can use? I'm from the Philipines and i've went to almost all the electronic stores in my area and they either dont have a plug thermostat or they have no clue what it is. The local petshop sells the zoomed thermostat but its doesnt seem like its worth it for its price plus theres no gauge or digital monitor on it at all so now i've turn to online shopping.

I was really looking forward to putting live plants in the enclosure but yeah they'll probably die in the enclosure

Thanks for sharing what you know guys. I've really learn a lot. Sorry for all the questions but every time i think about my tortoise they just keep on coming.

 

[Anyfoot]

No need for vents because they will just let humidity escape. If you use sliding windows like in a vivarium there will be enough air flow through the gaps between windows and from when you open the window. There's nothing stopping you putting vents in that can be fully closed off, at least you can experiment that way.
You will get white bugs, its nothing to worry about, they will eat old food and poop that you miss, put some icopods in there too.

I use T8 because of availability so not sure if T5 is better or not. Yes use a reflector.

 

[SidGo]

Here are the photos of my 2 tortoises


I’ll try experimenting on vents that can fully close
Alright thanks for clearing up my concern on the bugs

T8 is also what is available here in my area so i guess i’ll stick with it haha

Can you recommend me any good thermostats?

 

[Anyfoot]

I use habistat thermostats. Have s look on eBay, I'm it sure what's available in your country.

Because of the size you are going to build your enclosure you may need 2 x 150w CHE's or maybe 3 x 150w for example. You need to make sure your thermostat can cope with the wattage. The reason I use habistat is because they are rated at 600w, so if I wanted I could in theory plug 4 x 150w CHE's into one thermostat. Don't get a thermostat that is less than 300w rating because I think you will end up using 300w of heat. I know in 2x4ft at 2ft high enclosure a 150w CHE was perfect for redfoots.

 

[SidGo]

I use habistat thermostats. Have s look on eBay, I'm it sure what's available in your country.

Because of the size you are going to build your enclosure you may need 2 x 150w CHE's or maybe 3 x 150w for example. You need to make sure your thermostat can cope with the wattage. The reason I use habistat is because they are rated at 600w, so if I wanted I could in theory plug 4 x 150w CHE's into one thermostat. Don't get a thermostat that is less than 300w rating because I think you will end up using 300w of heat. I know in 2x4ft at 2ft high enclosure a 150w CHE was perfect for redfoots.

Thanks hopefully i can find a good thermostat here soon and i’ll be sure to check the wattage.