Need help with Sulcata losing scute

[patphng]

Hi all,
This scute fell off the back and I think the one below it is also loosening. The white creamy stuff showing is hard and crusty, it does not look like pus to me. The irregular shell growth around the middle scute has been there since I bought her from someone else more than 10 years ago. Otherwise, she seems to be healthy and active with great appetite. I moved from Sunnyvale to Belmont in August 2017. These two cities in the San Francisco Bay Area are only ~20 miles apart but Sunnyvale is very sunny and Belmont is up in the hills with lots of trees and often windy. Back in Sunnyvale my sulcata used to roam around the front porch getting lots of sun and at night inside a 60 gallon tank with ceramic heat coil. She eats timothy hay and vegetables in the summer and during the wet winter here I would pick grass, dandelion, thistles, clovers from empty lots and parks. Occasionally calcium powder and vitamin spray on the food. Soak for 20-30 min once a week. After I moved to Belmont, it is quite cold outside so she spends more time in the 60 gallon tank while I try to figure out how to house her. The tank has a 100W basking light with UVA. And a UVB tube ( but someone told me the tube probably has lost UV a long time ago even though it is still glowing). The basking light is about 12 in above the floor of the tank. It may have been too close to her back, I realized after reading a few threads (I have always thought they can move around to avoid getting burnt). Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks a lot. Patrick

 

[vladimir]

Hi all,
This scute fell off the back and I think the one below it is also loosening. The white creamy stuff showing is hard and crusty, it does not look like pus to me. The irregular shell growth around the middle scute has been there since I bought her from someone else more than 10 years ago. Otherwise, she seems to be healthy and active with great appetite. I moved from Sunnyvale to Belmont in August 2017. These two cities in the San Francisco Bay Area are only ~20 miles apart but Sunnyvale is very sunny and Belmont is up in the hills with lots of trees and often windy. Back in Sunnyvale my sulcata used to roam around the front porch getting lots of sun and at night inside a 60 gallon tank with ceramic heat coil. She eats timothy hay and vegetables in the summer and during the wet winter here I would pick grass, dandelion, thistles, clovers from empty lots and parks. Occasionally calcium powder and vitamin spray on the food. Soak for 20-30 min once a week. After I moved to Belmont, it is quite cold outside so she spends more time in the 60 gallon tank while I try to figure out how to house her. The tank has a 100W basking light with UVA. And a UVB tube ( but someone told me the tube probably has lost UV a long time ago even though it is still glowing). The basking light is about 12 in above the floor of the tank. It may have been too close to her back, I realized after reading a few threads (I have always thought they can move around to avoid getting burnt). Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks a lot. PatrickView attachment 240165

Hi, and welcome! You came to the right place.

I'm sure others will be along soon to offer advice, but one thing that stood out to me was the ceramic heat emitter. They're known to dry out and dessicate the carapaces of larger tortoises.

You're going to want something like a radiant heat panel, which disperses the heat more evenly and avoids the intense heat in one spot

http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

How large is the tortoise? 60 gallons is not large enough in any case, unfortunately.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi and welcome!

The carapace was burned at one point in the tortoise's life, and the bone under the keratin layer died. New bone and keratin will grow under that exposed dead bone, but it takes a very long time. The tortoise was under a heat source that was too close to his shell and it burned and killed the bone on top of the shell.

There's nothing you can do about it now, the damage is done. Just make sure the heat source is more than 12" above his back, not above the floor.

 

[patphng]

Hi Vladimir and Yvonne,
Thank you so much for your advice. Since both of you came to the same diagnosis I will cancel the appointment to the herp vet who is far away and I will have to miss a day of work to go there. If this is not an infection then I will just let it be.

Regarding the housing issue, I want to keep her outdoor as much as possible during the day time starting now and through the summer. The problem with Belmont is that it gets breezy here and temp can drop. Tomorrow it will be around 61 degree. Can I keep her outside with a basking lamp (12 in above carapace)? Or you think she may catch a cold with the wind? At night I will just bring her inside. The house is kept at 66 degree. If you think it is ok because she is big enough, I will even remove the night ceramic heater (definitely check out the heater Vladimir suggested). She is 10 inches long and weighs 7 lb.

I also have a small leopard tortoise 6 inches long and 2.4 lb. I was thinking of letting him out in the yard during the day time and inside at night. Same way as the big one. But not sure if he is too young for that. Please advice.

Sorry one more question. The reason why I called the leopard "him" and the sulcata "her" because he keeps following her and tries to hump even though he is so much smaller. Is this a reliable way of sexing tortoises? Thanks much.
Patrick

 

[Tank & Scooter]

Crap can this happen to me ? I have 100 watt ceramic bulb about 8 to inches off floor connected to thermostat set at 85 degree F. It fluctuates from 80 to 85 right under bulb. I have thermostat sensor and thermometer right between houses. Should I worry about cooking their shell? Or my thermostat got me covered? This post scared me. That's a 2x4 in pic so it's like 8 inches high

 

[Yvonne G]

You should always measure from the back of the tortoise, not from the floor. . . and12" is the MINIMUM
distance from the shell.

 

[TriciaStringer]

Hi Vladimir and Yvonne,
Thank you so much for your advice. Since both of you came to the same diagnosis I will cancel the appointment to the herp vet who is far away and I will have to miss a day of work to go there. If this is not an infection then I will just let it be.

Regarding the housing issue, I want to keep her outdoor as much as possible during the day time starting now and through the summer. The problem with Belmont is that it gets breezy here and temp can drop. Tomorrow it will be around 61 degree. Can I keep her outside with a basking lamp (12 in above carapace)? Or you think she may catch a cold with the wind? At night I will just bring her inside. The house is kept at 66 degree. If you think it is ok because she is big enough, I will even remove the night ceramic heater (definitely check out the heater Vladimir suggested). She is 10 inches long and weighs 7 lb.

I also have a small leopard tortoise 6 inches long and 2.4 lb. I was thinking of letting him out in the yard during the day time and inside at night. Same way as the big one. But not sure if he is too young for that. Please advice.

Sorry one more question. The reason why I called the leopard "him" and the sulcata "her" because he keeps following her and tries to hump even though he is so much smaller. Is this a reliable way of sexing tortoises? Thanks much.
Patrick

Your tortoises should not be together. They are two different species. You need to have them separate all the times. The humper is a male but that doesn’t mean the other is a female.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Hi Vladimir and Yvonne,
Thank you so much for your advice. Since both of you came to the same diagnosis I will cancel the appointment to the herp vet who is far away and I will have to miss a day of work to go there. If this is not an infection then I will just let it be.

Regarding the housing issue, I want to keep her outdoor as much as possible during the day time starting now and through the summer. The problem with Belmont is that it gets breezy here and temp can drop. Tomorrow it will be around 61 degree. Can I keep her outside with a basking lamp (12 in above carapace)? Or you think she may catch a cold with the wind? At night I will just bring her inside. The house is kept at 66 degree. If you think it is ok because she is big enough, I will even remove the night ceramic heater (definitely check out the heater Vladimir suggested). She is 10 inches long and weighs 7 lb.

I also have a small leopard tortoise 6 inches long and 2.4 lb. I was thinking of letting him out in the yard during the day time and inside at night. Same way as the big one. But not sure if he is too young for that. Please advice.

Sorry one more question. The reason why I called the leopard "him" and the sulcata "her" because he keeps following her and tries to hump even though he is so much smaller. Is this a reliable way of sexing tortoises? Thanks much.
Patrick

Yes, Tricia is correct. Different species should never, ever be allowed to come in contact because of the large risk of disease, and tortoises should never be kept in pairs because they will likely bully each other, for example mounting.

 

[Tank & Scooter]

Thanks to this post I corrected all my ceramic bulbs. I have 3 enclosures, they all had ceramic bulb about 9 inches off the floor. Which meant the bulb was 6or7 inches from torts back.

I now raised bulb to 14 inches off the floor, so I got 12 inches between bulb and tort.

Glad I seen this post, thanx[emoji122][emoji106]

 

[vladimir]

Thanks to this post I corrected all my ceramic bulbs. I have 3 enclosures, they all had ceramic bulb about 9 inches off the floor. Which meant the bulb was 6or7 inches from torts back.

I now raised bulb to 14 inches off the floor, so I got 12 inches between bulb and tort.

Glad I seen this post, thanx[emoji122][emoji106]

Do you have an infrared temp gun to use to check the temps under the heat emitters? I would verify the temperature and not just trust that 12" is the best height for your enclosure.

In any event it sounds like an improvement [emoji846]

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Wait, when I first joined this forum I was told CHE's were the way to go? Are they not good?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Wait, when I first joined this forum I was told CHE's were the way to go? Are they not good?

No no, they are for babies and juveniles or any small tortoise in an indoor enclosure, but for giant tortoises like sulcatas or Aldabras, they’re only big enough to cover one part of the shell, and that part of the shell can be burnt. They’re perfectly fine for smaller torts

 

[vladimir]

The explanation I've heard is that larger tortoises can't warm their entire bodies under a CHE, so they sit under it for longer than they should trying to warm up, causing it to dry out the shell and burn them over time.

 

[patphng]

Hi all. Thanks. I will keep the two species separated.
Can someone tell me if it is ok to keep the sulcata (she is 10 inches long and weighs 7 lb) outdoor during the day time if temperature can drop to 60s?
How about set up the radiant heat panel Vladimir suggested to keep a corner warm where she can retreat into when the wind picks up?

 

[vladimir]

My experience was that the RHP isn't very effective unless it's in a fairly enclosed space. I think your best bet in the long run will be building a night box based on Tom's design. The RHP combined with a Kane heat mat will be perfect in there.

 

[TriciaStringer]

Hi all. Thanks. I will keep the two species separated.
Can someone tell me if it is ok to keep the sulcata (she is 10 inches long and weighs 7 lb) outdoor during the day time if temperature can drop to 60s?
How about set up the radiant heat panel Vladimir suggested to keep a corner warm where she can retreat into when the wind picks up?

Outdoors at that size is fine. Do you have any predator dangers? Definitely check into a night box. Tom has great plans that will help you. The night box ensures you have a place for them to warm up during chilly days and cold nights. In your search for night box, you will see suggestions for a heater. Make sure you provide lots of shade for hot temps. Maybe set up a misting hose for the hottest times of the day.