New African side neck in outdoor pond

[wendigo]

We have one of the Kim's pond kits outside in north Florida. Its 300 gallons and has been been set up since last November. We have 6 goldfish, 3 dojo loaches, (although some are currently missing, ugh) anacharis, hornwort and a floating island with a canna and another trailing plant. I got 2 Reeves hatchlings at the Repticon in March, one died within days and the other died last weekend after seemingly doing well for a month. He was coming out to bask every day, sleeping buried in the plants, swimming, etc. I made the mistake of looking in the aquarium section at Petsmart while getting cat food yesterday and fell in love with an African side neck. Apparently he'd been there for a very long time, he was actually sold to someone and returned "dead". The person brought him back wrapped in paper towels not moving, and when the employee went into the back to look at him after taking care of the return he was flopping all over the place very much alive. They named him Lazarus. He's been trained to take earthworms from your hand (the store said he ate 7 nightcrawlers yesterday) and is very curious and personable. So far he's doing well in the pond, I realize he might go after the fish but so far he's been okay.


Lazarus in Petsmart

I have a few questions, I've had lots of reptiles/tortoises but this is our first experience with turtles. Any good way to judge how much to feed him/her? He kind of seems like he'll eat as much as you give him and I don't want him to get fat. He obviously eats nightcrawlers but also Mazuri/zoo med pellets. Also, because I'm in north Florida I know he will need to come inside over the winter, or when it starts getting chilly at night. Any suggestions for setting up a nice indoor tank/tub for him? I'd like to do part land and mostly water. I want it to look nice, but my main concern is ease of cleaning and keeping him healthy.



Also - in today's mystery, we seem to be missing 2 goldfish and 1 loach. We don't do a daily headcount, so not sure when they went missing. There's no way a small turtle could completely consume 2 eight inch goldfish and one six inch loach overnight - is there? We did recently haf a raccoon come pull our suet feeder down, wonder if it helped itself to some fish as well :/

 

[cdmay]

Way to go wendigo! Happy that you saved Lazarus from the box pet store.
If you didn't know already he/she appears to be a Pelomedusa subrufra or African helmeted turtle. They are side-necks for sure. A good photo of the plastron and tail could help confirm identity and gender.
Don't let that cute face fool you...they are tough little predators and they will happily plant their face parts on just about anything they can. Expect more of the smaller fish to disappear. Larger fish should be OK though.

For the time being let 'him' eat all he wants and then check back in a month or so to see if he's getting fat. Helmeted turtles are one of those species that might spend a good portion of the year buried in mud during the dry season. Thus they tend to be 'gorge eaters' because in the wild state they have to take advantage of food while they can since their living conditions can alter dramatically from season to season. In captivity such species tend to become obese because they cannot shut off their 'gotta eat!' genes. Claudius, Staurotypus and some of the tropical Kinosternons have similar lifestyles.

Your courtyard pond looks fantastic! Lazarus should do just fine in it as long as he can bask on those stones.
My biggest concern would be the aforementioned raccoons. Coons are voracious predators that will take aquatic turtles every time they can. Try and secure that habitat somehow.

 

[wendigo]

Way to go wendigo! Happy that you saved Lazarus from the box pet store.
If you didn't know already he/she appears to be a Pelomedusa subrufra or African helmeted turtle. They are side-necks for sure. A good photo of the plastron and tail could help confirm identity and gender.
Don't let that cute face fool you...they are tough little predators and they will happily plant their face parts on just about anything they can. Expect more of the smaller fish to disappear. Larger fish should be OK though.

For the time being let 'him' eat all he wants and then check back in a month or so to see if he's getting fat. Helmeted turtles are one of those species that might spend a good portion of the year buried in mud during the dry season. Thus they tend to be 'gorge eaters' because in the wild state they have to take advantage of food while they can since their living conditions can alter dramatically from season to season. In captivity such species tend to become obese because they cannot shut off their 'gotta eat!' genes. Claudius, Staurotypus and some of the tropical Kinosternons have similar lifestyles.

Your courtyard pond looks fantastic! Lazarus should do just fine in it as long as he can bask on those stones.
My biggest concern would be the aforementioned raccoons. Coons are voracious predators that will take aquatic turtles every time they can. Try and secure that habitat somehow.

Thanks so much for all the info. I will try and get better pics of him tomorrow. I am really worried about the raccoons too, I have temporary mesh over the pond, put motion lights and cameras up and might end up reinforcing the mesh on all the iron gates into the courtyard. We’re going to look into something more permanent to keep them safe. It’s crazy, the garden center I got the goldfish from had every single one of their koi and goldfish wiped out by a family of otters. I think their turtle was the only survivor.

 

[wendigo]

@cdmay here's some pics I got today. Any idea what species, sex, or approximate age? He's 172g. Ignore the bloodworms all over his face, he just finished a frozen block of them.

 

[TammyJ]

He is adorable.

 

[cdmay]

Nice photos, thanks. They help enormously.
Pelomedusa subrufra for sure. No doubt. Flawless specimen too!
Looks like a female. Could be a young male but I doubt it.
See the website Pelomedusa.com The site hasn't been updated in some time but it is a great resource.
You have found a gem of a pet turtle, have fun caring for it.

 

[wendigo]

Thanks for the site, its very useful. Lazarus figured out how to get on the island and has been coming out to bask. So far he likes bloodworms and nightcrawlers. Mealworms were eaten but he blew chunks out everywhere in the water, and he eats pellets but not with much enthusiasm. I'm going to get crickets to try too.

 

[cdmay]

Blowing chunks of mealworms is common. They are mostly shell.
Cooked shrimp or lean chicken will result in a spoiled sideneck.

 

[wendigo]

Thanks for the tip! Next time I make shrimp he'll get some. I read through this study and seems like I don't really need to worry about plant material, just keep up a variety of prey items. https://www.researchgate.net/public..._The_Effects_of_Sex_Body_Size_Season_and_Site

Any suggestions for fish to keep with him as feeders? I was thinking guppies. He already turned his nose up at pellets this morning, pretty sure he was waiting for nightcrawlers instead

 

[cdmay]

Guppies are fine. Native Gambusia are even better.
Avoid goldfish, rosy reds, bait shop minnows and the like.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I get rosy minnows to feed my Midland Painted...don't get goldfish as they will outsize a turtle then you must add goldfish food to your pond as they will become pets for you. It seems most water turtles do most of their catching when the fish are sleeping...

 

[Maggie3fan]

Guppies are fine. Native Gambusia are even better.
Avoid goldfish, rosy reds, bait shop minnows and the like.

are 'rosy reds' the minnows I get???

 

[wendigo]

We got him 6 guppies and discovered that he likes crickets. He was also hugely impressed with the shrimp he got for dinner last night. Over night I had a ton of invasive Cuban tree frogs spawning in the pond. I’ve been trying to catch and euthanize them but it’s hard to keep up. This morning he’s been eating the frog eggs. I’m hoping he’ll eat the tadpoles too. Anyone know if he manages to get an adult Cuban tree frog if it will make him sick? I know they have skin secretions that are harmful to mammal eyes and noxious to anything that eats them.