New and have heating questions for five Redfoots

[Danielle4440]

Hello to all,
Brand new to here - what a wonderful forum this is!
We just brought home five two year old Redfoots. My questions are regarding heating. We live in Florida, but while the temps are down they are in our entry room - not as warm as the house, but still comfortable. We have a Kane heat mat that has a temperature gauge on it. What temp should this be set to? We also have a plastic type box full of moist moss for their hide. It has a 100 watt ceramic bulb hanging above it, but to be honest it feels a little cold in there. I am worried about chilling them with the wetness. I didn't think we should put the hide on top of the Kane mat as I was afraid that might get too hot and burn them. What are some heating solutions for hides?
We also have a UV 100 watt bulb in another area and of course an area that is just cool for them as well.

Then the next question I have is their outdoor pen. We have a plastic dog house with the plastic type flap for the opening. It has a large Kane mat in it. How hot should it be set to? Is this enough for outdoors? Again I don't want to put a hide box directly over the mat in fear of too much heat for them so it is just wide open in there. That seems so chilly to me.
We have been told to just keep them inside if below 60 but even the idea of them being in there at 60 with nothing else worries me.

Any help that you could offer we would really appreciate. Thanks so much, Danielle

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Danielle, and welcome to the forum!

You're right to be worried about it being cool inside the moist hiding place. A tortoise that is in moisture and cool, can soon become ill.

Redfooted tortoises do just fine with an overall temperature of around 80F degrees.

 

[Danielle4440]

Hello and thanks for the reply.
Can you tell me how you keep it 80 in the hide? Do you hang a ceramic just over it or do you use a mat under it? I have a 100 watt ceramic hanging above currently, but it just doesn't seem to be warming it up in there that much. The very top is slightly warmer but as you go down into the moss it gets chilly. I was nervous to put the bulb too close to the top of the plastic container.

Thanks so much for your help!
Danielle

Hi Danielle, and welcome to the forum!

You're right to be worried about it being cool inside the moist hiding place. A tortoise that is in moisture and cool, can soon become ill.

Redfooted tortoises do just fine with an overall temperature of around 80F degrees.

 

[Madkins007]

My favorite heaters are ceramic heat emitters and waterproof heat ropes. The bigger problem is probably the wet materials. Tortoises in contact with wet, cool materials can get lots of problems. A different tack would be to create warm, humid air but keep the materials touching the tortoises dry.

There are lots of ways to do this- heat a container of water (aquariums, for example) or rig things up so there is a thick layer of something like cypress with a layer of warmed water at the bottom so it rises up through the stuff. You can rig up a moist root shelter (https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/Indoor-Housing/shelter-hides) which creates humidity mostly from above, etc.

There are lots of good answers, but they depend a lot on your situation, location, availability, etc.

Oh, and these guys are tougher than you think. A cool night is not that big a deal, especially if it is sunny the next day.

 

[Danielle4440]

Hi and thank you so much. It is so hard to narrow down the information - everyone tells you to put damp moss in their hide and honestly I was wondering the same thing you just said. Wet anything on a creature tends to create problems after a while. Thank you again for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.

Take care, Danielle

 

[Holycow]

"Cool" and "cold" are subjective terms. Can you guess on the temps in the room in the hide or in the areas you are talking about? Wireless temperature guns are cheap and a great way to get the surface temps of things like heat mats or even your tortoise. Also are called "infrared temp guns"- can be picked up at home depot for about 20$
Between the Kane heat mat and the heat bulb, you should be able to keep them warm enough. I'd try not to let the "cool" side of the enclosure get below 70F, if you can help it. (I know my redfoot has accidentally made it thru much cooler temps outside- before I learned to close the sleeping boxes at night.) I've just used Kane heat mats by plugging them in with no thermostat, just make sure the tort can get off and away from it if it wants to cool down. Also a tort sitting under the heat lamp will warm up pretty well if the bulb is near enough (but not so close they can touch the bulb). A temp gun will really help you because you can see what temp the animals actually are while they are inside outside/ walking around/waking up in the morning... it's all very interesting. Sorry I'm all over the place... it's getting late.
good luck.
-Jeff

 

[Danielle4440]

Thank you Jeff. I did just get one of the temp guns and you are right it is very interesting. The hide I am still struggling with a bit - trying to find the exact placement of the bulb so it does not cook them in there but stays in the 80's. Wow - moving it just a tiny bit really changes it! I think currently at night it is still dropping into the 70's down low in it - I am not sure if this is okay or not but then in the day when the other lights are on and it is just warmer period it can shoot up fast so I have to be really careful or its up into the mid 90's plus! Very touchy. I have just started shutting off the ceramic light over it during the day just in case. I keep the hide off of the kane mat because kane said don't put anything on the mat. Honestly I wish I could just skip the light and put the hide on the mat but I am sure Kane knows better than I do.

Can I ask what is your sleeping box situation outside? How do you close it up at night? I have a plastic type dog house with the see through type plastic flap they go through. It is just wide open in there though and I again haven't put a hide box in there because it would have to be on the kane mat. I am worried it is just too wide open for them. How do you handle yours? I don't have a heating light out there at all.

Thanks so much for your time and help!
Danielle

 

[Holycow]

Thank you Jeff. I did just get one of the temp guns and you are right it is very interesting. The hide I am still struggling with a bit - trying to find the exact placement of the bulb so it does not cook them in there but stays in the 80's. Wow - moving it just a tiny bit really changes it! I think currently at night it is still dropping into the 70's down low in it - I am not sure if this is okay or not but then in the day when the other lights are on and it is just warmer period it can shoot up fast so I have to be really careful or its up into the mid 90's plus! Very touchy. I have just started shutting off the ceramic light over it during the day just in case. I keep the hide off of the kane mat because kane said don't put anything on the mat. Honestly I wish I could just skip the light and put the hide on the mat but I am sure Kane knows better than I do.

Can I ask what is your sleeping box situation outside? How do you close it up at night? I have a plastic type dog house with the see through type plastic flap they go through. It is just wide open in there though and I again haven't put a hide box in there because it would have to be on the kane mat. I am worried it is just too wide open for them. How do you handle yours? I don't have a heating light out there at all.

Thanks so much for your time and help!
Danielle

Hello,
I think 70F-90F air temps is fine for a redfoot, as long as they can get out of the heat and over to the 70's area if they so desire. Also, remember the temp gun only reads the surface temp of the material you are scanning not the air. Even in cool air a tortoise will warm up pretty quick under a heat lamp.

My setup: Outside I have a wooden box about 4 feet long a 2.5 feet wide, rectangle shaped. Top of the box is 16 inches high. I chose to have a low ceiling so it would be a smaller space to keep warm. I built the box from scrap material from home projects and also stuff I found along the side of the interstate (wood that obliviously flew off of trucks). The box is not pretty or symmetrical but it works. Admittedly it's kind of like tortoise shantytown out there.
I tried using the plastic flap door material you describe, but my tortoises tended not to want to push thru it. They would leave the hide but not go back inside.
The flooring in the hide box is sandbox sand mixed with a small amount of straw- maybe 90% sand and 10% straw. The Kane mat takes up about 1/4 of the floorspace in the box, it sits on top of the sand and I periodically brush off any debris that the tortoises push on top of it. I check it every few days to make sure it's not buried or anything. I have found it 50% covered with sand/gravel/tortoise droppings before and it didn't burn the place down so take that for what it's worth.
The key here is the animals can get on or off and completely away from the mat if they so desire. It is the only heat source in there.
If its 75F or cooler and rainy, or if its dry and 65F or cooler I go out after dark and make sure the torts are in the box. Usually they are, sometimes they are not and I have to go dig one out from under the hedges or something and place it in the box. Once in the box I block the entrance with a piece of wood (and something heavy) to keep the warmer air in and to keep the torts from walking out during the night. The heat mat definitely warms the air to some degree, but thoroughly warms the animal on top of it.
As I mentioned before, one time a redfoot left the box sometime in the night and camped out in the yard when the temps were in the mid 50's and weather was dry. I found it the next morning. That day warmed up into the mid 70's with full sun, and the tortoise seemed to be fine. No resp. problems or anything. I think it was just luck, I suspect those temps are far too cold for this species with any frequency. The next evening that same animal was the first one in the night-box sleeping in the center of the heat mat.
Anyway, the tortoises in the box can get on or off the heat mat and sometimes sleep on it, sometimes not. I don't stress about them overheating because they can get off if they want. Even in the summer if the mat is left plugged in it never gets so hot that you can't keep your hand on top of it. In the spring I know I can unplug the mat when I start noticing no torts at all in the night box in the evening... It's just too warm in there for them.
If the temps here are going to be in the 30's (VERY rare) or colder I'd bring them inside my house so make sure they don't get too cold. I am in Homestead at the very bottom of the state so it's hardly ever really cold here.
I also have a plastic dog house like you describe. I use it as a night box for a large sulcata, I have a ceramic heat emitter handing from the ceiling so he can get under it (or move out from under it). This has worked fine for me for several years. That's the only way I'd use one of those plastic things.
The bad thing about those Igloo shaped things is the heat tends to go up to the top and not on the animal inside- I would not use a dog igloo with a heat mat, I don't think it will keep the animals warm enough.
Someone else mentioned a radiant heat panel. I have one of those as well in another sulcata hide and I think it works the best of all. I will eventually go that route with all my night boxes, but I don't have the time or $$ to get into the project right now, and it's not likely I can find any of those off the side of the interstate.
-Jeff

 

[Danielle4440]

Hi Jeff,

Thank you so much for all of the information. I am going to rework their outdoor hide. I think you are right it is just too high in the dog house for them to stay warm. If you do happen to find radiant heat panels on the side of the road let me know what road - I am going to start driving it!

Take care and thanks again for your time.
Danielle