New Baby Black Greek

Shaif

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Hi All,

I'm sorry if this post is a repeat of anything that has been said before. I'm completely new to all of this. We just got a baby Black Greek named Zeus. He's adorable and perfect, but he's also tiny and incredibly fragile. He sleeps all day. Wakes only for 1-2 hours max. He eats very little--greens once a day, but none of the sortened premium tortoise pellets he came with.
We've had him for 4 days now. He came via UPS from Florida.
We have him housed in a tortoise palace enclosure bought from brookstone. Temps are 100 basking, 80 otherwise. Substrate is reptibark. Humidity 50%. Soak once a day, 20 min.

Is this normal behavior for a new baby? Should I change anything?

Thank you so much for advice or help. I worry about my little baby!

Sincerely,
Shaif
 

Kristoff

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Hi @Shaif,

Hope more experienced members will chime in, but it does sound like Zeus :) just needs some time to adjust to his new environment.

A photo of the enclosure might be helpful.
 

Shaif

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image.jpeg
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Here are some pics of my darling. The cage is 4ft x 3ft. He has not even seen the hide hole-- he tends to stay in one corner.
I mist him 1-2 times a day and soak twice a day. He still has almost no appetite and sleeps all day. He is awake only a few minutes at a time.

Please help, I'm quite worried about my little Zeus.

Temp is 100 in basking corner, 75-85 on opposite corner. Substrate is reptibark. I work hard to keep humidity above 50, but it's very difficult. I'm looking into a mist device, but reviews are sketchy.

I truly appreciate any help and advice. This is my first tort, and I love him so much!

Sincerely,
Shaif
 
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Kristoff

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Lovely baby!

I'm sorry I can't give much advice - your setup looks perfect to me, but I'm also a newbie. :)

How are the overnight temps?

I've noticed the Greek subsection of the forum is not very active, so you could try posting in the "New and Need Help" one.

@Yvonne G, @Tom, @Tidgy's Dad, @JoesMum have been very helpful in addressing my questions.

Hope Zeus is fully adjusted soon!!
 

HermanniChris

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Hi Shaif,

I received your private message, first off, there is no such Thing as a "black Greek" just like there is actually no such thing as a "Golden Greek". This is because both black and golden specimens can be found in any of the subspecies of Greek tortoise for the most part. The black ones generally come from northwest turkey and Bulgaria and belong to the subspecies Asia Minor tortoise (Testudo graeca ibera). The most prominent golden ones are called Mesopotamian tortoises (Testudo graeca terrestris). Yours is most likely ibera. Unfortunately, the terms "Black Greek" and "Golden Greek" were made up by dealers and they stuck. Neither are actually accepted in taxonomy or valid at all.

Your habitat may not be allowing for enough of a moist microclimate. Babies need to be able to burrow as much as they want to in deep, moist substrate. My Greek tortoise care sheet at the top of this forum is a little outdated and needs to be richer in information but I have not had time to do that. However, my Hermann's tortoise care sheet is very thorough and can be used for your little Greek tortoise as well. Just keep in mind that hiding and burrowing are 100% normal and must be allowed in order for the animal to be stress free and behave in a normal way.
 

Shaif

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Thank you so very much for the information. I have read your care sheet for Testudo many times and will use the additional literature from the Hermann's as well. I'm very appreciative of your knowledge and willingness to help.

I'll change my substrate ASAP. You have mentioned peat moss with a top layer of cypress mulch in your document. Is that the best for my baby? If so, I'll order it immediately. Do you ever have problems with mold in the high humidity?

So far, I've been scouring places for dandelion leaves. Do you know how to buy fresh leaves in the winter? Do you do something like greens in the AM and Mazuri in the PM?

Also, can any harm come of giving more frequent soakings? Esp since the reptibark is not retaining moisture well?

I do pick Zeus up to put him in the soak and then into a food plate, otherwise he won't eat at all. I hope that's not too much trauma for him. He crawls out on his own and goes back to his corner.

Do you recommend a certain misting device? They seem a bit pricey and of dubious quality, but I am only beginning my research of them.

Once again, thank you so very much,
Shaif
 

Shaif

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Lovely baby!

I'm sorry I can't give much advice - your setup looks perfect to me, but I'm also a newbie. :)

How are the overnight temps?

I've noticed the Greek subsection of the forum is not very active, so you could try posting in the "New and Need Help" one.

@Yvonne G, @Tom, @Tidgy's Dad, @JoesMum have been very helpful in addressing my questions.

Hope Zeus is fully adjusted soon!!
Thank you so much! Night temps are 75-85. I'll post at the new and need help forum. That describes me pretty well!
 

HermanniChris

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Thank you so very much for the information. I have read your care sheet for Testudo many times and will use the additional literature from the Hermann's as well. I'm very appreciative of your knowledge and willingness to help.

I'll change my substrate ASAP. You have mentioned peat moss with a top layer of cypress mulch in your document. Is that the best for my baby? If so, I'll order it immediately. Do you ever have problems with mold in the high humidity?

So far, I've been scouring places for dandelion leaves. Do you know how to buy fresh leaves in the winter? Do you do something like greens in the AM and Mazuri in the PM?

Also, can any harm come of giving more frequent soakings? Esp since the reptibark is not retaining moisture well?

I do pick Zeus up to put him in the soak and then into a food plate, otherwise he won't eat at all. I hope that's not too much trauma for him. He crawls out on his own and goes back to his corner.

Do you recommend a certain misting device? They seem a bit pricey and of dubious quality, but I am only beginning my research of them.

Once again, thank you so very much,
Shaif

I've found that the best substrate across the board (at least in my experience) is natures care organic potting mix from Home Depot mixed with cypress mulch. A small splash of sand adds a nice naturalistic approach to it and despite previous information, it is very safe. It is also not a necessity though in case you don't want to add it. Make it at least 5" deep. Mold never seems to be an issue and remember that substrate moisture is far more important than air humidity with Testudo species.

I have no idea where you can find dandelion leaves in winter. We have a farmer's market here which sells organic bunches all year long but there are plenty of other options out there to get you by.

The tortoises are fed once a day to every other day in the late morning and food is left for them to consume later in the day if they choose to. They are grazers and that's how they do it in the wild. The two natural feeding times for them are morning and early evening.

Frequent soakings can cause unnecessary stress depending on how often you do them. Losing that substrate and replacing it will help.

As for nighttime heat, this is probably the biggest misconception in tortoise raising these days. Simply put, they don't need it usually and it often causes problems down the road. Testudo species like ibera and Hermann's for example, need a nighttime cool down. Unless your room temp is consistently dropping below 65F during the active parts of the year, there is absolutely no reason for any nighttime heat. The animal
Should be in complete darkness and relatively cool at night as it would be in nature.

For misting I just buy 3-5 gallon sprayers from Home Depot that are used for plants.

Hope this helps.
 

Shaif

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Awesome. Thank you so very much. I have ordered the potting mix and cypress mulch and will pick them up today. I will switch the substrate immediately after work.

I feel so bad that I was so poorly prepared for this guy. I have read so much regarding care, have talked to a local store owner, and have purchased what I thought was the best. I think your invaluable advice is what I should have sought from the beginning.

Please please feel free to add any other pearls of wisdom or ideas about my setup that can be improved. I'll do whatever it takes to make this a happy healthy tortoise home.

Thank you!
 

Gillian M

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A cute little tort. GOD bless.

No, soaks in warm water won't harm a tort, especially during HOT Summer days.;) Here it's been very hot for the past five days or so. I give Oli :<3: up the three soaks each and every day.:tort:
 

Shaif

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Thank you! Yes, it's hot here too, and I fear dehydration. My baby is so small, I feel that the smallest change might hurt him.
Your Oli is beautiful! You must be a great parent!
 

Shaif

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I have changed the substrate to Natures Care organic potting mix and mulch, and humidity is now at a lovely 70%. I think my little guy is happier. He ate a bit today and explored more than he has ever done before!

You guys are the BEST!
 

Gillian M

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Thank you! Yes, it's hot here too, and I fear dehydration. My baby is so small, I feel that the smallest change might hurt him.
Your Oli is beautiful! You must be a great parent!
Oh thank you! :) I'm doing all I can to be a good tort-mum though I'd never had a pet/dealt with animals before.;) Goodness, what a hard time the beginning was!:(
 

Kristoff

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Shaif

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Messages
438
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsburgh, PA
Hi Shaif,

I received your private message, first off, there is no such Thing as a "black Greek" just like there is actually no such thing as a "Golden Greek". This is because both black and golden specimens can be found in any of the subspecies of Greek tortoise for the most part. The black ones generally come from northwest turkey and Bulgaria and belong to the subspecies Asia Minor tortoise (Testudo graeca ibera). The most prominent golden ones are called Mesopotamian tortoises (Testudo graeca terrestris). Yours is most likely ibera. Unfortunately, the terms "Black Greek" and "Golden Greek" were made up by dealers and they stuck. Neither are actually accepted in taxonomy or valid at all.

Your habitat may not be allowing for enough of a moist microclimate. Babies need to be able to burrow as much as they want to in deep, moist substrate. My Greek tortoise care sheet at the top of this forum is a little outdated and needs to be richer in information but I have not had time to do that. However, my Hermann's tortoise care sheet is very thorough and can be used for your little Greek tortoise as well. Just keep in mind that hiding and burrowing are 100% normal and must be allowed in order for the animal to be stress free and behave in a normal way.


Hi Chris,

May I ask you another question?
I have spent some time on your website and saw your recommendations about Mazuri chow LS mixed with the dried herbs from the website you have a link to. Can you tell me the best herbs to purchase? I'll follow your instructions completely.

Thanks again,
Shaif
 

HermanniChris

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Make sure the majority of the mazuri you use is the original formula and not the LS.

I would buy dandelion, blackberry leaf, strawberry leaf and plantain to name a few.
 

Kristoff

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Make sure the majority of the mazuri you use is the original formula and not the LS.

I would buy dandelion, blackberry leaf, strawberry leaf and plantain to name a few.
I'm one of the silent admirers of your professional knowledge, @HermanniChris! Rest assured your input helps more than one person out here. ;)
 
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