New Box Turtle(What is it)

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81SHOVELHEAD

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New 3 toed i think

Hello ya'll .
Not new to tortoises(6 northern redfoots &2 burmese mountains)
3 weeks ago a co-worker found a BOX turtle in his yard.
Its about 3.5 scl Golden in color with Black around the scutes .
Back legs only have 3 toes(is this a three toed box turtle)
Right now i have her? i think in a 4x2x16" enclosure with an 18" reptisun 10.0 bulb for UVB & a heat mat placed between 2 18x18 cermic tiles for heat .
She is still kind of shy .
Got her to eat some T-REX box turtle food & superworms.
He lives in Houston .
Is it possible the is an escape artist that escaped someones yard or could it be a wild caught ,
She appears to be very healthy (nice smooth high domed shell ,clear bright eyes,
FYI he had it for about 2 weeks & asked all his neightbors & no one on his block owned any turtles ,
His wife didn't want to keep it for his son so he asked if i wanted it.
She sure is a beatuiful turtle & i want to do the best i can to provide her with all the requirements needed .
Will post pictures once she has a chance to settle in .
Plans are to section off my 12' X12' Outdoor enclosure & build her a 3'x4' enclosure inside the 12x12 for now .
My redfoots & burmese live out there all summer long.
Does any other box turtle species have only3 toes on the rear legs?
Sorry for all the rambling on but i'm kind of excited for rescueing this little guy/girl B/C he said he was going to let it go in the woods.
once i determine the species/sex should i find him/her a mate?
Mike D.
 

Saloli

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RE: New 3 toed i think

It sounds like a ttbt but where are you located it might be a local turtle. If it is then you should put it back close to your coworkers yard as they are matrilocal and will generally try to return home. The are a grassland/ forest edge species. They are omnivores that lean towards the meat side. Three toed box turtles are one of the easier Terrapene carolina subspecies as they are a bit more tolerant of low ambient humidity. This species is one of the more intelligent species of turtle and is more then some mammals. They tend to be picky eaters and are escape artists your cage probably won't retain it. They also get bored easily. Do you have any pictures.

Oh to answer your question if any of the other Terrapene have three toes yes. The Florida, and Mexican Carolina subspecies have normally have three toes. Though three toes does not make it a three toed box turtle (T.c. triunguis) as some easterns (T.c. carolina) and some Gulf coast box turtles (T. c. major ) have three toes. These individuals are just expressing normal phenotypic variations as a side note sometimes the subspecies that normally have three toes have four.
 

81SHOVELHEAD

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RE: New 3 toed i think

Saloli said:
It sounds like a ttbt but where are you located it might be a local turtle. If it is then you should put it back close to your coworkers yard as they are matrilocal and will generally try to return home. The are a grassland/ forest edge species. They are omnivores that lean towards the meat side. Three toed box turtles are one of the easier Terrapene carolina subspecies as they are a bit more tolerant of low ambient humidity. This species is one of the more intelligent species of turtle and is more then some mammals. They tend to be picky eaters and are escape artists your cage probably won't retain it. They also get bored easily. Do you have any pictures.

Oh to answer your question if any of the other Terrapene have three toes yes. The Florida, and Mexican Carolina subspecies have normally have three toes. Though three toes does not make it a three toed box turtle (T.c. triunguis) as some easterns (T.c. carolina) and some Gulf coast box turtles (T. c. major ) have three toes. These individuals are just expressing normal phenotypic variations as a side note sometimes the subspecies that normally have three toes have four.


Thanks for reply
will put up pictures once i get some shots .
 

81SHOVELHEAD

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box turtle 003.JPGbox turtle 002.JPGbox turtle 001.JPG
What is it?
She's still kind of shy but is eating her T-REX box turtle food & Mazuri just fine as you can see .
As stated in earlier post she was roaming around in co-workers back yard .
She is already starting to come out of her shyness & the way she is starting to eat her box turtle food leaves me to beleive she escape from somones out door enclosure..
Thanks for any help .
MikeD.
 
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Saloli

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I would say probably a ttbt. Though just because she eats prepared food does not mean she was a captive. Most of the ones that live with me ate organic dog food as one of their first meals in captivity. You never mentioned where you are located.
 

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Terrapene carolina triunguis (3-toe) don't usually have any coloration besides the bone color on their plastrons, leading me to believe you might either have an intergrade or a Mexican box turtle.
 

Saloli

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Also box turtles once they realize you are not going to hurt them which usually doesn't take long will come out and start looking around. As I said before they are very smart. Blue for example who has only been in captivity since march ( he was mauled by a dog which in a way is ironic as his species is generally the more intelligent of the two) will actually climb in my lap when I sit in their pen. He also likes his head rubbed.
 

Tccarolina

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Saloli said:
Also box turtles once they realize you are not going to hurt them which usually doesn't take long will come out and start looking around. As I said before they are very smart. Blue for example who has only been in captivity since march ( he was mauled by a dog which in a way is ironic as his species is generally the more intelligent of the two) will actually climb in my lap when I sit in their pen. He also likes his head rubbed.

I don't think they are smarter than dogs! Where did you come up with that?
And which mammals are they smarter than? I haven't read that in print anywhere.
 

81SHOVELHEAD

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Saloli said:
I would say probably a ttbt. Though just because she eats prepared food does not mean she was a captive. Most of the ones that live with me ate organic dog food as one of their first meals in captivity. You never mentioned where you are located.
Turtle found in North Houston nieghborhood.
I'm is Galveston County .
Raining Alot in Houston the last couple of weeks ,could this have brought her out into the nieghborhood?
 

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Actually, three toed box turtles can have color. Especially the males. they often will have a lot of orange and red on their faces, necks, and legs. And both sexes will often have yellow coloring. The gulf coasts tend to be the blandest in coloring.
 

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supremelysteve said:
I don't think they are smarter than dogs! Where did you come up with that?
And which mammals are they smarter than? I haven't read that in print anywhere.

They have been tested like the North American Wood turtles in mazes and with various learning tests like rats. The ones on average tested similar to rats which are generally considered more intelligent then dogs on average. Though like all averages that includes really smart ones and not so smart ones. I was published in one of the herpetological journals but I can't remember which one.

Yeah she could have become more active because of the rain. If you are near Houston then yes she could be native. The shell coloring isn't right for a Mexican Box Turtle. Though if you took a face picture that would allow me to confirm which it is.
 

81SHOVELHEAD

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Yeah she could have become more active because of the rain. If you are near Houston then yes she could be native. The shell coloring isn't right for a Mexican Box Turtle. Though if you took a face picture that would allow me to confirm which it is.
[/quote]

Ok
Work on the outdoor enclosure today
Set her uo with a 32" wide x 6.5"long x14" tall boxed in inside my 12'x12'x6'tall chainlink enclosure .
Starting to get crowded in there with the 6 redfoots x2 burmese mountain x 1 box turtle all seperated of course .
Will get a face shot next time i have the opportunity
Mike D.
 

jojodesca

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I will chime in here...looks like you have a ttbt....the coloring is very nice...light drab olive to darker brown is what colors they can range in..I have seen some with this almost exact shell..I believe turtlemann2 (Scott) has a similar girl which looks like this... try giving 'her' some worms and bugs too......
 

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lisa127 said:
Actually, three toed box turtles can have color. Especially the males. they often will have a lot of orange and red on their faces, necks, and legs. And both sexes will often have yellow coloring. The gulf coasts tend to be the blandest in coloring.

I have an extremely colorful GC Box Turtle, and he is still a juvenile. I always thought they were drab too until I got mine. I have never seen a TTBT with a shell like that. Really beautiful.
 

lisa127

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Saloli said:
supremelysteve said:
I don't think they are smarter than dogs! Where did you come up with that?
And which mammals are they smarter than? I haven't read that in print anywhere.

They have been tested like the North American Wood turtles in mazes and with various learning tests like rats. The ones on average tested similar to rats which are generally considered more intelligent then dogs on average. Though like all averages that includes really smart ones and not so smart ones. I was published in one of the herpetological journals but I can't remember which one.

Yeah she could have become more active because of the rain. If you are near Houston then yes she could be native. The shell coloring isn't right for a Mexican Box Turtle. Though if you took a face picture that would allow me to confirm which it is.



Rats are extremely intelligent animals. But never have I heard them to be considered more intelligent than dogs. And while I adore chelonians, there is absolutely no way they are smarter than dogs. I have trouble believing that anyone who has lived with a dog would believe this.

In actuality, I don't believe turtles are all that intelligent except for things important to a turtle.

This is kind of interesting.
http://www.globalanimal.org/2010/12/08/animal-iqs-which-is-the-smartest-animal/26219/
 

yagyujubei

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Steve, calm down, he must have meant smarter than a log.
lisa127 said:
Saloli said:
supremelysteve said:
I don't think they are smarter than dogs! Where did you come up with that?
And which mammals are they smarter than? I haven't read that in print anywhere.

They have been tested like the North American Wood turtles in mazes and with various learning tests like rats. The ones on average tested similar to rats which are generally considered more intelligent then dogs on average. Though like all averages that includes really smart ones and not so smart ones. I was published in one of the herpetological journals but I can't remember which one.

Yeah she could have become more active because of the rain. If you are near Houston then yes she could be native. The shell coloring isn't right for a Mexican Box Turtle. Though if you took a face picture that would allow me to confirm which it is.



Rats are extremely intelligent animals. But never have I heard them to be considered more intelligent than dogs. And while I adore chelonians, there is absolutely no way they are smarter than dogs. I have trouble believing that anyone who has lived with a dog would believe this.

In actuality, I don't believe turtles are all that intelligent except for things important to a turtle.

This is kind of interesting.
http://www.globalanimal.org/2010/12/08/animal-iqs-which-is-the-smartest-animal/26219/



 

Tccarolina

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Saloli said:
supremelysteve said:
I don't think they are smarter than dogs! Where did you come up with that?
And which mammals are they smarter than? I haven't read that in print anywhere.

They have been tested like the North American Wood turtles in mazes and with various learning tests like rats. The ones on average tested similar to rats which are generally considered more intelligent then dogs on average. Though like all averages that includes really smart ones and not so smart ones. I was published in one of the herpetological journals but I can't remember which one.




I don't know, I have a hard time buying it. My turtles are interesting but they are not smart. They still try to walk through their wire fences despite having months of experience with the fence. Both dogs and rats quickly learn that a barrier is a barrier, even though they can see through it.
They don't seem to understand "object permanence", once it's out of sight, it's out of mind. Dogs understand object permanence.
I think turtles have good memories to map their environment and home range, but that's highly instinctive, not intelligence. Most rattlesnakes also possess an excellent knowledge of home range, and learn to avoid dangerous situations. Klauber's book on rattlesnakes describes rattlesnakes covers this pretty well.

Can you post a link to the studies involving box turtles you're referring to?

Steve
 

Saloli

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I've known many dog to run into fences. As far as your turtles walking into their fencing none of my colony do that. They all climb up and out if I leave the lid up to long. That was even before I put the window screen on the inside ( to keep insects in and kids from putting stuff into the pen). I personally have never had a pet dog though there were several family dogs when I was young and my mom has one. I have never known a dog to do half the stuff that I've seen box turtles do let alone wood turtles. Though just a side note about dogs their kissing you isn't exactly a friendly thing it has to do with dominance basically the lower ranked kiss the higher ranked member. Though a lot of what people tend to think of as intelligence is social instinct behavior. Though I'm not going to argue about dog or turtle intelligence because as far as intelligence tests go the ones for other species are just as flawed as the ones for humans.

The study I'm referring to as I said I can't remember what it was called but I can try to find it online. My memory isn't the best before about 2006 or so ( I was hit by a suv on my motor bike) I honestly have trouble remembering good parts of when I was younger. That is why I write a lot of things down. But any way I'll try.
 

lisa127

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I have a dog that has always loved to play fetch. When she brings back the ball or frisbee if she holds it in her mouth you just tell her to drop it and she does. If she drops it a few feet away from you where you can't reach, you tell her "I can't reach it". she then picks it up again and brings it right to you. No turtle I've lived with has ever understood a word I've said.

And somtimes when a dog kisses you it is a social heirarchy thing, but not always. Yes, submissive dogs are definetely more "kissy" than more self assured dogs. But sometimes dogs will also begin licking (kisses) to relieve anxiety, and sometimes it is due to being overstimulated. Not everything a dog does is due to dominance contrary to what people want to believe.

I've lived with multiple dogs for almost 44 years now. Many, many dogs. I've worked in animal shelters as well. I've never known a dog that has run into fences. Not one that is not visually impaired anyway.
 

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As much as I love my tortoises (any tortoise/turtles), there is no way they compare in intelligence to my dog. Dogs can be taught when and where to go to the bathroom, taught tricks and commands, and I believe they can even understand your emotions to an extent (joy, anger, approval, etc,). When I take her leash out, she runs around the house wagging her tail then sits in front of me. In terms of walking into barriers/fences, they can even be trained to use electric fences in which they remember where not to go with memory and hearing beeping.

Like I said, tortoise are awesome animals:), and I see a lot of wild box turtles around my house; but I can't see how they compare to dogs in the smart department.
 
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