New hatchling acting lethargic

[kobemega]

The tortoise I got last night is acting very lethargic. I haven't seen him eat, bask, or get in the water dish since yesterday.
He has a 10.0 UVB high output tube bulb, a daylight basking light that gets between 95-100 degrees, and a grow light. The ambient temperature is between 70-80 during the day and 67 at night.
I've been leaving shredded plants with calcium (and even tried offering some without calcium too) on his flats rock in the morning and switching them out when they get dried out near the end of the day.
My sister said she saw him move and nibble a few plants, but I don't think he really did- I think she just wanted me to think she was keeping an eye on him when she was really playing PlayStation.
He his under his temperature gauge all morning and in his warm hide for at least five hours in the evening. When I checked on him before bed (at 3 am) he was still in exactly the same spot and hadn't moved since 5:30pm. His light turns on at 8:30 so it wasn't really his bedtime yet. His lights were still on when he went and his for the night.
I touched him to see if he would flinch or anything and he didn't move at all. I seriously thought he was dead. But he moved around a bit and opened his mouth when I picked him up (a yawn or voicing his displeasure for being woke up? I don't know). He had his eyes closed and didn't open them at all when I held him. I attached a picture because I know people say sometimes they get swollen but I can't tell if his are swollen or not. I wouldn't know what it looks. Let me know if you think they look swollen and what I should do about it. The picture was taken right after I picked him up and his eyes had been totally closed, possibly sleeping. The substrate he has is 100% cypress mulch, which is what they say they had him on.

I'm just really afraid he's gonna die. He's so very tiny. I feel any little disturbance in his environment could kill the poor little guy. And everyone in the house complains about how cold it is in the house (67) despite being warm blooded.

If you guys could let me know if I'm doing anything wrong that would be great.
Should I be soaking him daily for 20 minutes? Can I put the basking light above him while he basks so the water doesn't get cold so fast or will the reflection hurt his eyes?
Should I try offering him tortoise pellet food just to get him to eat something?
And what is this "hatchling failure syndrome" someone posted about? I've been researching for months and never heard about this. Is this something I should be concerned about? It says it can be caused by dehydration and it did take him about 26 hours to get here, but j have soaked him and the humidity in the tank is between 30-60% depending on what side he's on.

I really hope I'm just being neurotic, but I worry about him being so small and fragile. I keep trying to think if there's anything I am doing wrong, but I just want to be sure.
Sorry for the long posts guys, I'm just worried about the little bugger.

 

[bigred]

Sorry your tortoise is not doing well, was the tortoise inactive when you got him or did he become inactive when you got him home in his new enclosure. You should post a pic of your setup that he is housed in, he might be to cold. Is the enclosure a closed top or open top? What is your temps in the enclosure, a small tortoise like that needs to be kept warm

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Sorry your tortoise is not doing well, was the tortoise inactive when you got him or did he become inactive when you got him home in his new enclosure. You should post a pic of your setup that he is housed in, he might be to cold. Is the enclosure a closed top or open top? What is your temps in the enclosure, a small tortoise like that needs to be kept warm

I just read your post again and realized you have him 67 deg. at night, Im sure that is your problem but Im not experienced with that species of tortoise

 

[RGB]

Things for you to do:
Warm soak in very shallow water every day.
Make sure the hatchling is in an environment that never goes below 75F.
Basking area of 95F
Offer whatever food it will eat for now (pellet food is fine)... Just get it eating.
Maintain humidity (not too dry in enclosure)

Hatchlings should be warm and humid.


Other helpful pieces of info u can add (sorry if I missed this in your original post ):
Describe enclosure
Max/min enclosure temps
Species
Age
How long you have had it
Has behaviour changed
Day light cycle length
Type of food

Best of luck!

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Sorry
Just read your previous post. Most of the info is in there.

I'd try keeping the little hermann warmer and see if he perks up. Soaking daily will ensure it doesn't dehydrate. Keep offering food. I've had torts shipped that have been a long time before they ate, but I would be concerned if you went too long with a hatchling.
Hopefully it will get more active with higher temps.

 

[Cutva]

I had the same issue give him a warm bath and try giving him celery one day then doing normal food this is how mine started eating! Hopefully he is ok best of luck!

 

[[email protected]]

I had simililar problems with mine. I did what RGB wrote and what always stimulated is romaine and mazuridiet. The love mazuri diet!!. I do though grind it to powder and then soak it for a while in warm filtered water.
I posted my dalmatian spa and they sit literly in the tray under a 40 w. bulb. soak soak and heat.
Good luck, he/she will come around.
Annette

 

[kobemega]

Annette- Well I got him from LLL reptile and he is a very tiny dalmatian. I know it takes a while for them to acclimate but he doesn't move at all. I honestly am not sure if he's even alive most of the time. For instance this morning he got his soak and was put under his basking light and hasn't moved at all since about 9 (it's past noon now). He didn't move or open his eyes at all for his morning soak.
Like I said, I don't know if there was permanent damage from traveling in a dry box for 27 hours or what. But he's only guaranteed for 3 days after arrival and I can't even tell for sure if he is alive right now.

I saw someone suggested celery. I use the tortoise table for his dietary decisions, and it says to not feed them celery. Is this an instance where I should disregard that in order to get him to eat? I will try lettuce and pellets if he still won't eat anything if he wakes up and starts moving.

 

[edwardbo]

bad time of year for torts,stop payment on the tort ,hope you used a credit card .did you know he would be so tiny ,was he over nighted?..some times the more you do the worse it gets. just looked at your pictures he is tiny. blanket him with warm moist spagnum,a thin covering then apply heat ,gently.try to make him feel secure ,biuld protection aroun him so he doesnt feel so exposed. i have been nursing a weak gentle black mountain for many weeks ,i dont think she is going to make it.so frail ,im losing her ,i know it.trying every thing ,gonna apply pedia light now .small improvement when i make her feel secure.she never liked to eat ,always seemed afaid of the food .her spouse must have ripper open his egg shell and is the size of a three year old ! ...thinking of trying vic morgan but i like to select my torts myself.was your hatchling packed so that she would not bounce around?i have a feeling she was tossed around a bit being christmas and all .pray all goes well for you ,really stop payment,then at least you can negociate(sP)a replacment at a fair price or they get nothing .it takes a while for things to die...they can absorb the loss better than you .

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please keep us posted

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up the heat ...

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even if you put a clear small plastic cup over him ,make a warm blanketover him.out of one lyer of damp paper towel, like a small sauna ,feeling of security is a must.

 

[Yvonne G]

For the time being, set the baby up in a smaller habitat and make sure the temperature all over the whole area is at least 80F degrees, and 85F would be even better. Soak him in warm water every day and leave him in there for at least a half hour. You can put the little dish of water back inside the hospital tank. That way it won't get any cooler than the temp in the tank. For the time being, don't put calcium powder on the food. It tastes bad and some babies won't eat when they taste it. Be sure to contact LLLReptile and let them know what is going on. They are a sponsor of the Forum, and a reputable dealer. They might have some words of wisdom for you too.

(When soaking don't have the water be too deep so he has to strain to keep his head out of the water)

 

[bigred]

Annette- Well I got him from LLL reptile and he is a very tiny dalmatian. I know it takes a while for them to acclimate but he doesn't move at all. I honestly am not sure if he's even alive most of the time. For instance this morning he got his soak and was put under his basking light and hasn't moved at all since about 9 (it's past noon now). He didn't move or open his eyes at all for his morning soak.
Like I said, I don't know if there was permanent damage from traveling in a dry box for 27 hours or what. But he's only guaranteed for 3 days after arrival and I can't even tell for sure if he is alive right now.

I saw someone suggested celery. I use the tortoise table for his dietary decisions, and it says to not feed them celery. Is this an instance where I should disregard that in order to get him to eat? I will try lettuce and pellets if he still won't eat anything if he wakes up and starts moving.

Looking at your setup,,,,,,all the heat is escaping out the top screen. You should find something to cover it to keep the heat in. From what it sounds like you dont have any heat at night, I would suggest a heat emitter or at least a couple night bulbs. Hows the tort doing?

 

[Yvonne G]

Sorry...I didn't look at the pictures before I responded. Bigred is absolutely right. Besides the screen inhibiting the UV rays from reaching the tortoise, the lights/heat is up too high when you use the screen like that. Plus there is way too much light for that little baby. Use only one heat source plus the tube UV light. And remove the screen so you can make the heat light lower. Then take the temp inside the aquarium.

Also, get rid of all those dishes and waterers and use a tile for feeding and a plant saucer for water. He also needs a nice hiding place.

 

[kobemega]

I'm pretty sure he's dead. He has been under the basking light since around 9 am. That's about 5.5 hours and be hasn't moved at all.

He weighs the same as when I got him so I don't think he dehydrated or he would weigh less, right? When I got him, I figured be would be about 2 inches but he's not even 1.5.

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I called LLL reptile and they said if he doesn't react when you lightly tap his shell then he's dead. He doesn't react when I do that, so he must be dead I guess. They said it was probably because it took so long to get him here and because it was so cold. Yet they can't refund shipping even though that's what killed him. So they're refunding me for the tortoise, but not shipping. They offered to sell me another one, but why would I pay $40 in nonrefundable shipping again when I know it will kill them now?

The LLL reptile guy said if you look at the weather forecast it has to be over 35 degrees for a reptile to survive the trip. It hasn't been that warm here in weeks. Why they didn't check that or tell us that when they called to arrange the shipment is beyond me. I asked and he had no answer.

I'm really sad that he's gone. Like I said, I've been looking at them for nearly a year now and when he went up for sale a few weeks ago, I totally fell in love with him. I'm really disappointed. Maybe in a few months when it's warmer in Michigan I'll try again but I'm way too heartbroken right now.

Thank you SO MUCH for your help, advice, and support you guys!
If I ever get another one, I'll definitely be back on this site.

 

[StarSapphire22]

I'm so sorry to hear about your little one. You tried your best and it's not your fault. *hugs*

When you're ready to try again, contact Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise. His prices are reasonable, he's fantastic to work with, and he has some truly outstanding torts. I couldn't be more thrilled with my Littlefoot, and his customer service skills are amazing. When his incubator shorted and fried my egg, I was allowed to pick a holdback from his personal collection. Even though it wasn't really his fault, he made it right. He's a responsible breeder, Hermanns expert, and joy to work with.

Good luck to you.

 

[edwardbo]

im sorry, but you actually did ok with regard to money.its nice to see tort bis. owners doing the right thing , yes chris is very nice and expert,there are pthers that are noce too.you could try another species now ,i dont think you would have ordered that turtle if you knew it was going to be that small.i truly feel sorry for you and the turtle.dont be afrasid to try again ,maybe a nice yellw foot from turtle source ,marcos is fantastic,. some hatchlings are bigger ,stronger than others ,if you explain your situation they will walk you thru it.torts can arrive in a matter of hours and packed right it should be ok .forrest torts are a little more fogiving in my opinion.and you dont have to fight the winter slow down of other species. best of luck.you did ok .try again,think of the people that spend thousnds on a tort.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm so very sorry the little tortoise died.

 

[bettinge]

Sorry about your loss. As a side note I have received numerous animals from LLL and have always been extremely happy with their packaging.

I suspect that since the tort made it over night and was not in freezing temps, shipping may not have been the root cause. I've had packages of hatchlings I've shipped get delayed an extra day without issue. In fact, cool shipping temps are much better than high shipping temps.

I also would not focus on the size of the tortoise. I'm a true believer a 13 gram hatchling is as robust as one twice its size. Some are just from small eggs!

Things happen. Things die! It sucks and has happened to all tortoise veterans. I hope this wont keep you from trying again and I also hope you don't loose faith in LLL. If you have shipping temps 40 or above, I would have LLL ship another hatchling. They are truly experts!

 

[RGB]

Sorry about your tortoise.

It may be advisable to get one a little bigger next time. Hatchlings are much more susceptible to temperature fluctuations. This baby looked very young. I try not to ship any until they are at least 2-3 months old. Any younger than that, and I think most would agree that they should only be taken by experienced owners, and not shipped in cool weather.

Best of luck in the future!

 

[edwardbo]

Thank you RGB .your right.

 

[Pokeymeg]

That's terrible sorry for your loss. I hope this doesn't keep you from trying to keep a tortoise in the future. Maybe try getting an older tortoise next time? After I lost a baby Hermann, I bought an adult from Chris Leone and have been very happy!

 

[Raymo2477]

I wish people wouldn't ship reptiles in the winter to places up north. I live outside of Philadelphia and wouldn't chance it before April or after early October. If you're getting a pet that can potentially be with you the rest of your life what's a few months?

I'm sorry that you lost your hatchling. Sometimes they just don't make it. I lost my first Herman's after only a month. Then I decided to get adults torts, then after a few years I tried babies again and have been successful.

Wait until spring and buy an old tort, maybe some will have some 1 year olds that are still small but more stable than a few month old.

 

[Jlant85]

Sorry about your tortoise.

It may be advisable to get one a little bigger next time. Hatchlings are much more susceptible to temperature fluctuations. This baby looked very young. I try not to ship any until they are at least 2-3 months old. Any younger than that, and I think most would agree that they should only be taken by experienced owners, and not shipped in cool weather.

Best of luck in the future!

This is why I alway recommend juveniles and adults for starters. Hatchlings are hardy. I mean... They need all the attentions they can get! Juveniles and adults are a lot easier to work with and they are a lot more fun.