New marginated tortoise set up, supplies, and troubles

[freefood]

I just got a four month old marginated tortoise as a late Christmas present today. Yesterday I bought a bunch of supplies, so could you people here tell me if they are OK? I have:
1 Mecury Vapor bulb (Exo-terra)
1 27 gallon plastic tub (Home depot)
Some tortoise food (Rep-cal)
1 thermometer
1 Hygrometer
Calcium powder with Vitamin D3 (Fluker's)
A spray bottle
A log hiding cave

I know pet store tortoise food isn't adequate nutrition, so what are some good foods that I can easily buy from the supermarket? I heard Mazuri tortoise food is good for about 50% of the diet.

For substrate I am using one of those blocks of coconut husk that you put in water to expand. My tortoise seems to have trouble with this substrate though, because he/she is only 2 inches long, with the chunks being pretty big. Should I buy something else?

Lastly, my tortoise hasn't drank or eaten anything since I got him/her in the morning. He/she doesn't move much, even when I move it around the tub. Most of the time I find my tortoise with its eyes closed where I last saw it (for most of the day). Is this some kind of a warming up period?

I know this forum is kind of dead, but I needed some help with this. I will get anything I need tomorrow.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi freefood:

Welcome to the forum!!

May we know your name and where you're from?

I'm not understanding your substrate. Usually the stuff you buy in a brick (Bed-a-Beast) dissolves into something with the texture of wet dust, not chunks. If you got coco bark, you're right, the bark bits are too big to be comfortable for your baby to walk on. Personally, I like cypress mulch or orchid bark, the fine grade.

Now lets address the baby itself. What you're describing doesn't sound too good. Does the baby have a hiding place? A new baby should be in the hiding place because its scared its going to be eaten. Especially a new baby in a new habitat. Because you've seen your baby just laying around with its eyes closed, it makes me think its either not warm enough or sick. Let's hope its the warmth...its easier to deal with. The light should be straight up and down, not shining at a slant, and should be 12" from the top of the baby. If you arrange the light in that fashion (in one corner or end of the habitat) and the rest of the habitat isn't 75 or hotter, then you'll have to either cover the habitat or place another heat source over it.

You can buy any dark, leafy greens from the grocery store, and this is one reason we like to know where you are located. Makes it easier for us to talk to you. If you're in the U.K. you can't buy Spring Mix, because its called rocket salad over there. I use Spring Mix and to that I'll add some leaves from outside...mullberry, grape, dandelion, clover, fillaree, etc. I also buy endive, escarole, turnip greens. For one little tortoise, you don't have to buy all that stuff, but you DO have to feed the little guy a nice variety of greens. So you can buy one bunch of something this week, then a bunch of a different something next week. and so on. If you like to also feed the prepared tortoise diets, that's ok too, but not as the sole diet. Add the mfg'd stuff to your dark, leafy greens.

 

[freefood]

My name is Bryan, and I live in Irvine, CA. The substrate is a coco husk block. I was going to buy a Bed-A-Beast block, but I guess I got the wrong item by mistake. Is cypress mulch available at Home Depot? I can go there tomorrow, and while I'm there, should I get some peat moss as well? Right now in California, the lows are 40F, and inside my house the temperature is 60 at night. The mecury vapor bulb I have is 125 watts, and warms it up to about 80F. I lost my box turtle to really hot outdoor weather, so I guess I'm a bit paranoid about too much heat. But they way you phrase it makes it seem like my turtle isn't getting enough. Do you think I need a heating pad?

I will go and buy so of the spring mix you suggested, as well as some cactus pads. Thanks for the help.

 

[coreyc]

I have one thing is the light you have a Solar Glo if it that's good when you get set up can you post some pic's ?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Bryan:

Here in California we can't find cypress mulch at the home improvement stores like you can back east. If you want to buy a big bag of something, then go to Orchard Supply Hardware and buy orchid bark, Wonderbark brand. I don't know if any of these stores are near you:

http://www.google.com/search?client...&resnum=2&ved=0CDQQtQMwAQ&fp=83f87efc6f926f13

Wonderbark comes in three grades (or size kibble), fine, medium and large. Buy the fine grade. You can buy a fairly large bag for around $10.

If you can't find an Orchard's near you, then you're stuck buying little bags of cypress mulch at Petsmart or Petco. The little bags are around $8 apiece and its called Cypress Bed or Jungle Bed and Forest Floor. These are packaged by Zoo Med and companies like that.

No on the "peat" moss. I think most of them here on the forum use sphagnum moss.

You should strive for one end of the habitat to be around 75 to 80 degrees, and getting progressively warmer the closer you get to the light on the other side of the habitat. It should be 100 to 110 directly under the light. You may have to lower the light to achieve this (but not lower than 12" from the top of the tortoise).

Good luck, and post pictures when you get a chance.

 

[freefood]

When i woke up today my tortoise was hiding in the log, and sleeping. I spent 10 minutes trying to wake her up, fearing the worst, but she is awake now. I definitely need to move the tortoise to a warmer room, or buy another lightbulb. I don't think coconut bark absorbs heat very well. I read an article on Tortoise Trust, and they said that Cypress chips/shavings are "Highly toxic when heated, emit noxious fumes. Serious risk of impaction if ingested. Avoid!" They recommend a mix of sand and loam. Can i trust this site, or have the tortoise owners here been using cypress mulch with no side effects for a long time?

Finally, I searched around, but I couldn't find the correct humidity level for a marginated tortoise. Are they desert tortoises? Currently the humidity in the enclosure hovers at 60%. Yesterday it was around 80%, but I think that much humidity is only required by box turtles.

The lightbulb I have is the Exo-Terra mercury vapor lightbulb. I heard about how good mercury vapor bulbs are, so I decided the $40 was worth it. However, it doesn't seem to give nearly enough heat. I think part of this problem is because my lamp is about 2 feet above the substrate.

I'm new to this tortoise stuff. I thought I could get by with my knowledge of Eastern box turtles, but I guess that the care for them are completely different.

 

[Edna]

Seriously, they said that about Cypress Mulch? It's awesome stuff, and doesn't emit fumes toxic or otherwise when heated.
If you don't already have one, get a heat gun so you can quickly check temps at multiple locations around your habitat. Lower the light, and maybe partially cover the tub. I prefer tubs with lower sides (14 inches or so) because when I cover with a lid/hail screen combo and rest the MVB on top, it puts the light at a favorable distance from the basking spot.

---

Just re-read your post and now understand that Tortoise trust was referring to a product that includes the bark. Cypress mulch, as sold at the pet store, does not include that bark. It is odorless, resists rot, absorbs and releases mositure, very nice substrate for torts.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Bryan:

The Tortoise Trust site is a pretty good one, but sometimes their info is a little outdated. On this side of the pond, we've been using cypress mulch for years with no adverse effects on the tortoises. Not sure, but maybe in the U.K. the kind of cypress they have is different than what we use here. I don't know.

Having said that, some of our tortoise keepers here on the forum use garden soil and swear by it. We don't hold anyone to one particular way of doing things. You use what works for you and your tortoise. But go easy on the sand if you decide to go that way. Sand can be pretty irritating to the tortoise and gets in the eyes and DOES cause impaction if the tortoise manages to eat some and isn't well hydrated.

I can't help you with Marginated tortoise questions. I think that Mongo keeps them. And I'm absolutely positive that Egyptiandan will be able to answer any question you may have about them. You can send him a PM and ask.

As to the light, you'll have to hang it so that it reaches down into the habitat further. Fix it so that the light is 12" above the back of the tortoise. Also, they need to hang straight down, not clamped so that they're at an angle. You may even have to cover part of the habitat to keep the heat in. Its very important to keep a baby warm enough.

 

[freefood]

I read about marginated tortoises some more, and I think my turtle is too cold and is trying to hibernate now.

EDIT: I have a clamp lamp, so that is clearly a problem. As for the tortoise, it still hasn't eaten of drank anything since I got it.

To the person who asked if I have a solar glo, the bulb is a Solar Glo 125W, but it's the professional edition or something. It isn't nearly hot enough, so I will have to get something else. Should I get a ceramic heat emitter, or a incandescent bulb?

 

[Yvonne G]

Either one would be ok, but be sure to get that Solar Glo down where it belongs.

 

[freefood]

I might have overestimated a bit. The bulb is about 18" off the substrate. I think I know what is going on. My tortoise is trying to hibernate, since it isn't warm enough in the enclosure. I don't want it to do this however, so I have been waking it up every time it tries too (about 4 times so far). Is this a good idea. I didn't have time to go today, but hopefully the pet store will be open tomororrow on new year's day. I don't want to not be able to see my tortoise until March .

 

[Yvonne G]

No, its never a good idea to allow a new-to-you tortoise to hibernate the first year with you. You need to warm the habitat up. It doesn't matter how you do it, it MUST be done. Screw a hook into the ceiling and put up a rope or chain and hang your light from that...any way you can do it, get it down lower into the habitat so you get more warmth out of it. Cover the habitat including the light so the heat stays inside. Turn up the heater in the house. There are many ways to warm the tortoise up. In my opinion, you're going to have a sick tortoise if you don't warm it up and get it eating.

 

[freefood]

Sorry for the late response, but I just replaced the coconut husk with a mix of play sand and garden soil (no added stuff) as suggested by Tortoise Trust, and my tortoise seems much more mobile now. Guess that did the trick. And I didn't need a ceramic heat emitter after all- the heater in my room was a bit wonky and it was fixed. I will try to post some pictures of my setup tomorrow.

I couldn't find any cypress mulch at home depot. The local pet store had a small pack (zoo med brand) for $10, but it wasn't enough for my 27 gallon enclosure. The soil and sand only cost $8 total, and I still have a lot left.

PS: Is it OK if I practice violin in the same room as my tortoise is in, or will I damage his/her hearing?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hey, just go ahead and play to your heart's content!! It won't bother him a bit.

 

[freefood]

Looks like I messed up again, because I read the label on the garden soil, and apparently it contains MANURE! Good thing I caught that, or else my room, and worse, tortoise would be stinky in the morning. For now, I have replaced it all with sand, which should be OK for the night (but I know I'll need some dirt as well because marginateds aren't desert species). Do you think topsoil will contain manure? Tortoise Trust suggested loam, which is just soil, but I didn't know which one. No wonder my hands stunk after changing the substrate.

EDIT: Is it OK if some of the sand gets into her shell? It is still a bit wet.

 

[GBtortoises]

Marginateds are a Northern Mediterranean species found primarily in southern Greece. In captivity indoors they can be kept at temperatures during the daytime ranging from the high 70's to the mid 80's at the cooler end of their enclosure to tempertures of 95-105 degrees directly under their basking light which will also create a warmer end of their enclosure. Night time temperatures can be in the range of 60-70 degrees. Humidity level should be 50-75%, 60-65% being idea. Higher humidity is fine as long as you have good air flow in the room, lower humidity is not good. Their substrate can consist of any of several choices. For smaller Marginateds and other Northern Mediterranean species I personally use a mix 60% organic topsoil or potting soil, 20% coconut coir & the remainder shredded leave and sphagnum moss mixture. I maintain it about 2-2.5" deep and spray it twice daily to retain moisture. I do not like sand because it clings to the tortoises mouth, eyes and nostrils when wet.
Mine are watered 2-3 times weekly by removing them from their enclosure and "soaking" them in a seperate container of water. This avoids more mess in their enclosure and also is a good time to visually inspect their wastes for any problems.
Mine are fed a diet consisting of about 80% good quality greens. The content varies somewhat based on seasons. They are outdoors from April through October and are fed an all natural weed diet. When indoors they are fed grocery store greens. The other 20% is vegetable matter to provide additional vitamins and minerals. They only supplement that I use is calcium carbonate. Powdered form for small tortoises, cuttlebone for medium to adult size. I never put it on their food, but always offer it seperately for them to regulate their intake of as needed. It is available for them to consume 24/7 as they need to. They also have timothy hay available to graze on 24/7 which Marginateds will do. They are really the only Northern Mediterranean species that will eat grass on a regular basis. The diet consists of, but is not limited to: Clover, dandelion, crown vetch, plantain, lambsquarter, and other natural plants, romaine, chicory, escarole, endive, mustard, beet and collard greens, carrot tops, green lettuce and occasionally some spinach and kale. Vegetables include, but again not limited to: pumpkin, squash, eggplant, bell pepper, corn, carrot, peas, green and yellow beans, sweet potato and more. I do also use Mazuri tortoise chow once a week, mixed in with greens. I maintain all of my Marginateds; hatchling, yearling, subadult and adults in the manner above with very good results.

 

[tortoises101]

Looks like I messed up again, because I read the label on the garden soil, and apparently it contains MANURE! Good thing I caught that, or else my room, and worse, tortoise would be stinky in the morning. For now, I have replaced it all with sand, which should be OK for the night (but I know I'll need some dirt as well because marginateds aren't desert species). Do you think topsoil will contain manure? Tortoise Trust suggested loam, which is just soil, but I didn't know which one. No wonder my hands stunk after changing the substrate.

EDIT: Is it OK if some of the sand gets into her shell? It is still a bit wet.

As long as the topsoil doesn't say it contains manure, it won't. Sand is okay for a temporary substrate, but yes, in the long run a 50/50 mix of soil and sand will be needed. You might want to use a feeding dish when your marginated is on sand.

 

[freefood]

I mixed in the topsoil, and I also went ahead and bought a ceramic heat emitter (60 watts) for $35 for night time heat. Here are some pictures:




I know it's pretty empty, but I need some stuff to fill the enclosure with. Also, when spring arrives I will make an outdoor enclosure (if she/he gets big enough anyways). The enclosure is a 27 gallon plastic tub from Home Depot, the substrate is a mix of topsoil (no manure ) and sand about 2 inches thick. For heating I have a 125 watt Solar Glo, and a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter (the solar glo is in the smaller lamp so I can move it closer to the substrate). Daytime temperatures are about 90, and 80 at night. Only one is on at a time. The entire setup has cost me at least $150 (the bulbs are the most expensive), but still seems a bit empty. What are some good decorations? Thanks for all your help.

I will try to get some better pictures in the morning.

 

[tortoises101]

I mixed in the topsoil, and I also went ahead and bought a ceramic heat emitter (60 watts) for $35 for night time heat. Here are some pictures:




I know it's pretty empty, but I need some stuff to fill the enclosure with. Also, when spring arrives I will make an outdoor enclosure (if she/he gets big enough anyways). The enclosure is a 27 gallon plastic tub from Home Depot, the substrate is a mix of topsoil (no manure ) and sand about 2 inches thick. For heating I have a 125 watt Solar Glo, and a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter (the solar glo is in the smaller lamp so I can move it closer to the substrate). Daytime temperatures are about 90, and 80 at night. Only one is on at a time. The entire setup has cost me at least $150 (the bulbs are the most expensive), but still seems a bit empty. What are some good decorations? Thanks for all your help.

I will try to get some better pictures in the morning.

Rocks are a good decorative item. You could also grow some grass indoors in a pot, and place them in your enclosure for a more natural feel. Timothy hay is also a good burrowing medium and adding a pile of it in the enclosure could help. You could add a log or two, and some artificial plants.

 

[Yvonne G]

Since baby tortoises are prey, it makes them feel safer to be able to hide. Your habitat is wide open and very stressful for a baby prey item.