New owner (Check Out My Enclosure)

NewHatchlingRussian

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I have had My Russian tortouse Dobby for about a week now. I think this is the way his enclosure will stay for a while and that amount of food is what I have been giving him daily. I Also give him daily 10 minute soaks. Does everything seem alright with how this has been set up? I am going to buy two or three succulents to throw in there and I was also thinking if adding some earth worms to clean the soil and make it more fertile for the plants. What do you guys think? Thankyou.20181123_081048_HDR.jpeg20181123_081044.jpeg20181123_081040_HDR.jpeg20181123_081028.jpeg
 

Yvonne G

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Dobby's awfully cute. Have you measured the temperature all over the whole enclosure? Seems to me it might be a little too cool with only one light and no cover.
 

NewHatchlingRussian

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Dobby's awfully cute. Have you measured the temperature all over the whole enclosure? Seems to me it might be a little too cool with only one light and no cover.
In the second picture there is a log that is partially into the ground. It is facing the heat lamp so I think it gets a bit warm in there. My room stays around 75 farenheit and the basking area is 90-105 depending on where he is on the mountain. At night I have a space heater so it doesn't get below 65-70 degrees. I could pump the space heater up but I thought that a small drop in temperature would help him want to go to bed and sleep. I usually turn the heat lamp off at 6 or 7 pm and back on at 6 or 7 am.
 

Mel from hell

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Ok. I’m going out on a limb, but here I go.... am I? The only one who keeps her tortoises, in Glass walled environments? Been keeping them this way for 50 years. I cannot even imagine, never being able to “See”, out. All u can ever do, is look UP. Kinda like being in prison. After maybe? 2 weeks of bumping the glass, they stop. I’ve had my now, 31 yr old python, in a huge, glassed in enclosure since birth. Never once, hit the glass. Ever.
My Russian torts Ruby, lives in a glass, long 65 gallon tank. When she was a baby, she’d rub along the glass a few times a day, then? She simply, stopped. I hope?! She enjoys watching life unfold around her. When she Sees me sometimes, she’ll run to the end I feed her at after her soak. Just imagine..... all u can Ever do, is look Up. U can’t see your human entering or interact, visually. I could never, keep a smart n sentient pet, in a huge, dark Tupperware prison. I live on a farm with many animals. Stop n think..? Would u put a puppy in a dark container where it never got to SEE anything new or interact? I don’t think so.
They may b dinosaurs, but they have a heart, mind, curiosity and are basically, our captive pets in a sense. My opinion only here. But I’ve been wanting to say this.
I’m expecting the worse, for having a different way of husbandry. But I can’t stay silent anymore. I also, take my torts out to run around for an hour or more a day, in a room that has no hazards.
Ok. Just my 2 cents.
Mel
 

daniellenc

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I use a clear tub but seeing out can be stressful for an acclimating tortoise. However, that tub open means temps and humidity fluctuate way too much for a hatchling. The substrate should be moist at all times, and a lid would solve both problems. You can buy a Christmas tree tote or similar at any hardware/big box store and cut a hole for the Che. Then just screw the fluorescent into the roof.
 

daniellenc

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Also, given the low height of this tub and no roof that little Russian will figure out escape in no time. They love to climb.
 

TechnoCheese

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Ok. I’m going out on a limb, but here I go.... am I? The only one who keeps her tortoises, in Glass walled environments? Been keeping them this way for 50 years. I cannot even imagine, never being able to “See”, out. All u can ever do, is look UP. Kinda like being in prison. After maybe? 2 weeks of bumping the glass, they stop. I’ve had my now, 31 yr old python, in a huge, glassed in enclosure since birth. Never once, hit the glass. Ever.
My Russian torts Ruby, lives in a glass, long 65 gallon tank. When she was a baby, she’d rub along the glass a few times a day, then? She simply, stopped. I hope?! She enjoys watching life unfold around her. When she Sees me sometimes, she’ll run to the end I feed her at after her soak. Just imagine..... all u can Ever do, is look Up. U can’t see your human entering or interact, visually. I could never, keep a smart n sentient pet, in a huge, dark Tupperware prison. I live on a farm with many animals. Stop n think..? Would u put a puppy in a dark container where it never got to SEE anything new or interact? I don’t think so.
They may b dinosaurs, but they have a heart, mind, curiosity and are basically, our captive pets in a sense. My opinion only here. But I’ve been wanting to say this.
I’m expecting the worse, for having a different way of husbandry. But I can’t stay silent anymore. I also, take my torts out to run around for an hour or more a day, in a room that has no hazards.
Ok. Just my 2 cents.
Mel

Adult Russians require a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet, so for most people, glass tanks aren’t exactly an option there.

However, while they can works for babies, tanks are very expensive compared to other alternatives, and, as long as the enclosure is big enough, the tortoise doesn’t care what kind of enclosure they’re in. They probably don’t see the value in being able to look out, and would feel the same in either enclosure. Additionally, even if they somehow did care, a tortoise raised it an opaque container would have never been raised in glass and wouldn’t know that that was an alternative, and wouldn’t want to be able to see out because they don’t know that’s possible.

Tortoises may be sentient, but I definitely wouldn’t say they’re smart enough to care what kind of enclosure they’re in.

It works both ways, and I don’t think it really benefits them to see out.

I also definitely wouldn’t let them roam the floor. It’s too cold, and even if you think the room is safe, I promise you that they will find a way to get hurt. Additionally, once they know there’s another world out there, they will stop at nothing to get back to it, and that has to be pretty stressful for them.
 
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Mel from hell

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That’s ok. I expect dissention. I speak from My experience and the fact that my tortoise, likes to look out.
How does one “ know”, that a pet/animal does not “ like”, to look out, though?to say it has no, “ benefit”? To look out of its enclosure? That’s rich. Givin a choice? I’ll bet anyone or thing, would like to see a bit of the world around them. If my llamas don’t get to go Out, in their pasture for too long, they are subdued and sad. When I traveled with my python in a dog carrier? Her sweet self,changed for the 2 weeks. Now, back to normal.
If u want any sort of pet? Think and read up on them.
Get the best u can afford. If it’s “ too small”? Then let ur tort somewhere to roam a few days a week like I do.its just a room with furniture. She enjoys it n has a routine. When I get Ruby up every day, she’s waiting for me. She comes, to me. She has all sorts of different experiences. Can she wag her tail? Of course not. But anyone who keeps a pet, they Know. They know, when their pet is happy or sad. I don’t discount her mentally or species wise. She knows happiness or sadness, just like we do. If u have a tortoise in something opaque? All I’m saying is take them out n interact. Does everyone have, a spare room To let a lil pet roam about? Of course not. And by the way, I have steam heated floors. But in Seattle, I let her get up to all kinds of stuff. I know, what’s considered harmful, just like y’all, do.
I was a working scientist for 30 years. I can debate Theories, all day long. our animal practices are obviously different. Ruby? Comes if called. Perhaps, because she can See, me. :) certainly, I’m not alone?

Forums, are for sharing ideas and that’s all, I am doing.
 

TechnoCheese

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That’s ok. I expect dissention. I speak from My experience and the fact that my tortoise, likes to look out.
How does one “ know”, that a pet/animal does not “ like”, to look out, though?to say it has no, “ benefit”? To look out of its enclosure? That’s rich. Givin a choice? I’ll bet anyone or thing, would like to see a bit of the world around them. If my llamas don’t get to go Out, in their pasture for too long, they are subdued and sad. When I traveled with my python in a dog carrier? Her sweet self,changed for the 2 weeks. Now, back to normal.
If u want any sort of pet? Think and read up on them.
Get the best u can afford. If it’s “ too small”? Then let ur tort somewhere to roam a few days a week like I do.its just a room with furniture. She enjoys it n has a routine. When I get Ruby up every day, she’s waiting for me. She comes, to me. She has all sorts of different experiences. Can she wag her tail? Of course not. But anyone who keeps a pet, they Know. They know, when their pet is happy or sad. I don’t discount her mentally or species wise. She knows happiness or sadness, just like we do. If u have a tortoise in something opaque? All I’m saying is take them out n interact. Does everyone have, a spare room To let a lil pet roam about? Of course not. And by the way, I have steam heated floors. But in Seattle, I let her get up to all kinds of stuff. I know, what’s considered harmful, just like y’all, do.
I was a working scientist for 30 years. I can debate Theories, all day long. our animal practices are obviously different. Ruby? Comes if called. Perhaps, because she can See, me. :) certainly, I’m not alone?

Forums, are for sharing ideas and that’s all, I am doing.

Animals are only as intelligent as they need to be to survive. If they have difficulty getting food, live in social communities, have to hunt, are large or have large brains, or are bred for intelligence like some dogs, they are going to be more intelligent than animals that don’t. Dolphins are very social creatures that hunt, some primates and birds have to make tools and most are social, and so on. Tortoises? They walk around to graze, are insanely territorial and solitary, don’t hunt, (most are)small with small brains, and definitely don’t need to make tools. They do not need to be intelligent to survive in the wild, and therefore, are not intelligent compared to other animals. You just can’t say “you wouldn’t leave a puppy in a box, would you?” Because they are not comparably intelligent, and have very different needs. That’s like comparing apples to, not even oranges, but a rock.

Additionally, they are solitary creatures, and therefore don’t have the ability to show complex emotions like wanting, love, hate, a concept of friendship, caring about siblings or family, etc. They don’t need to in the wild because they are solitary, and ,therefore, don’t have the things necessary to, like a hippocampus, which is a part of brain that allows them to control emotions, learn, and memorize.

Tortoises are only focused on their survival. They want to come to you and recognize you because you are the food god. They walk along the side of the enclosure because they want to find larger territories or more resources. They “cuddle” with other tortoises, not because they love them, but because they see it as an intruder and are stressing it out of the territory. They don’t feel complex emotions because they don’t need to and therefore not have the ability, just like how we don’t need to fly, and therefore don’t have wings. You are simply projecting emotions they don’t have on to them.

Tortoises don’t care what kind of enclosure they are in as long as it allows them to thrive, and they have no reason to find a different territory. If they have a properly sized, 8x4 foot enclosure, they are content. However, constantly taking them out of the enclosure to roam the floor is insanely dangerous, and how this happened-IMG_1706.jpg
It lets them know that there’s another world out there, and once back in their enclosure, they stress themselves out trying to get back to it. Again, they need an 8x4 foot enclosure, and shouldn’t need to roam the floor to get the exercise they need.

I suggest that you read this- https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-are-some-animals-so-smart/
 

TechnoCheese

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And? I can’t find the post cause I’m not 20 n techno savvy n I’m a new member....But hey y’all, quit picking on a 14 year old girl who’s a new owner. Yikes

Sorry, could you elaborate? What post are you referring to, and who’s the 14 year old new owner?
 

Yvonne G

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And? I can’t find the post cause I’m not 20 n techno savvy n I’m a new member....But hey y’all, quit picking on a 14 year old girl who’s a new owner. Yikes
No one is picking on anyone. But I'm curious who the 14 year old girl is. The person who started this thread is a 19 year old male from Arizona. If you think we're picking on YOU, your info shows you to be a 59 year old female.

I'll be happy to help you find the thread you're looking for if you'll give me more info about it.
 

RosemaryDW

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That’s ok. I expect dissention.

”Mel from hell” said:
Get the best u can afford. If it’s “ too small”? Then let ur tort somewhere to roam a few days a week like I do.

”Mel from hell” said:
I was a working scientist for 30 years. I can debate Theories, all day long. our animal practices are obviously different.

”Mel from hell” said:
Forums, are for sharing ideas and that’s all, I am doing.

Sharing experiences is great. That said, you won’t find any long-term owners here who let their tortoise roam on the floor so there won’t be much debate about it. But if you do want to have a conversation about it and some of your other experiences, you might consider starting your own thread in the forum that is specifically for debate. We’ve completely taken over the original poster’s questions and I’m sure that’s not what you meant to do. :)
 

Mel from hell

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No. Not at all, what I wanted to do.
I’m just trying to say, what works for Me.
I kept my former tortoise ( leopard), alive n well
For 33 years. And she lived a comparable life.
And, was happy or seemed to be.
On another note, it briefly flashed by, where s New, 14 year old girl was talking about her tort n offered an opinion, she was told that she’s too young n when she was older, then.... someone would listen to her. Etc
My point, was she’s only a kid, n she was trying. The response, was passive aggressive in my eyes . Teens, have their own lexicon and way of thinking. They’re much different than an adult. I wish she’d been welcomed n not put down. I’ve tried real hard to find it. Maybe, it’s gone. And I never said people are picking on Me. And I never said, to her 2! In an enclosure. Was good idea. It’s Not. Ruby, does not follow me back n forth in Her, tank, either. She simply walks to her feeding rock n waits. I soak, feed, then let her go in her hide. She comes back out, later and goes to end of tank, to watch my 8 parakeets antics.
When the electric went out in WA for 4 days, her n my python, , went into pillow cases n slept under my covers.
That’s not related, but maybe it’d help someone in the future.
I just don’t grasp the school of thought, that
They are mentally slower n incapable of having
No higher plan of thought/consciousness.
Even insects, learn cause n effect
When Ruby is finished after her soak, she’s parked in front of her Feeding slate rock, waiting for her greens, et al
She then slips into her lil hidey hole To digest n nap. And no, I do not constantly l,Take her out. I AM cognizant of what too much/is.
She does not roam about and try to get out, cause she’s had a “ taste of freedom”, either. She patiently waits, is all. Even if she Did, have a huge enclosure? I’d still let her cruise n explore, outside it. She digs going outside n if there is snow. I hold her up to the sun, for 20 mins or snow. With, no ill effects. I carry her in a plastic, shoe box n I get all sorts of weeds for her, too.
I’m not letting her barrel thru the snow n b too cold. If I don’t let her out for a Stroll~~she’ll just hide.
I’m a new member now that I’ve retired n I just wanted to exchange ideas. Not b Come at, for not doing the Will, of the group. I’m sure others, grow weary like I do, about shaming folks who do things differently. Lights, climates, lights again n so on. Maybe some people, just want specific advice on what sort of tortoise to keep n love. What would it look like, if older, senior people, just gave non critical advice? Not many keepers/ enthusiasts, can afford all the fancy set ups n varied lights they’re convinced they Have, to have. To have. New owners need encouragement and understanding. Not rank and file “ instructions”, of well, do it “ my” way, n so on. Am I glad? A senior member, can offer advice.? Yes. I am. But I feel like the new kid, who’s turn it is, to b Called Out):
I,,,,I do what I, want and I hopefully, give an enlightened response to some others, problems. I’ve had 3, private emails thanking me and 2, others who feel bullied if they don’t rank n file it with the preferred advice. That? Makes me sad. We ALL, at some point in time, were New keepers. In my day, a-forum? That,! would’ve been a dream! Some people, just need to lighten up n not act like know it alls. People and animals, learn at different speeds, with different tools and or, finances.
I? Have my own way of keeping My, reptiles and it works for Me.
You? Do yours. But don’t try to impose ur Will or advice, where I’m concerned. I, will 100%, believe that tortoises have thoughts, emotions and needs and I HAVE seen their little brains,at work, figuring problems out. please people, just give My thoughts on this enclosure/brain work, a glance.
Don’t talk over others, who may not share your views . None of us are Right, every time. Let’s just agree to disagree. Ok?
There’s no one alive ( oh Carl Sagan, I miss you...)
That will impose their Will, onto me without me, reacting.
I think tortoises are smarter than most give credit for and they’re also, Way tougher than we are led to believe. I, just treat mine, like the sensitive lil thing she is, and has proven, to be.
I will not be cowed into silence, nor will I just quietly retreat.
Younger keepers, need to hear and make up theeir own minds and then, apply their thoughts, into their pets care:
I’m kind, fun loving and not afraid to help, in albeit a different
Train of thought. I try not to ascribe any, advice that I’ve not tried before myself. Enjoy ur tortoise! Common sense n instinct, are going by the wayside anymore, because nowadays, people are told “ what”, TO, think.everyone,has to b politicically correct. Blahhhh
Try try try and if it doesn’t produce the result u want? Then figure it out. Ask for help. And when or if it’s offered? Mold it to
Suit You and ur pet. Reptiles, are more than a chapter in an Axelrod book. Take what others offer and decide for yourself. Ok? But don’t try to make me or others who disagree, look less than.
 

Yvonne G

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Whew! Are you glad to have gotten all that out of your system?

People come on the Forum and ASK us for advice. If we weren't asked, we wouldn't be responding. If someone says I have a new tortoise, how do I take care of it, we tell them the tried and true way we have learned what works. You either say, thank you and move on, and try it our way or not. Nobody is pushing you to do it our way. When talking about sulcatas and leopards, Tom and Neal and Dean have been doing it for many years. Tom even performed experiments on clutches of his own babies and shared those experiments here on the forum. So we know what works and what doesn't. If you don't want to be told how to take care of a tortoise, don't ask.

If I'm not mistaken, YOU'RE the one who came on this thread and told the original poster they were keeping their tortoise in prison (my word, not yours) because he can't see out. You insinuated they should be keeping their tortoise in a glass walled enclosure. Up until your post, none of us said anything bad about the original poster's enclosure, which I think is pretty darned nice.
 

Taylor T.

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I try not to ascribe any, advice that I’ve not tried before myself.
So by that logic, you would not advise someone against sticking a fork in an toaster, simply because you never yourself have done it?

Also, I don't think you're entirely correct to put teens in a completely separate category than adults. While we are inevitably somewhat different, there's a lot more overlap than you think.

I think you may have just won the "Trainwreck post of the month" award. Cringe-worthy grammar? Check. Flawed logic? Check. Long winded? Emphatic check. Your post sure ticks all the right boxes, doesn't it?
 

TechnoCheese

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No. Not at all, what I wanted to do.
I’m just trying to say, what works for Me.
I kept my former tortoise ( leopard), alive n well
For 33 years. And she lived a comparable life.
And, was happy or seemed to be.
On another note, it briefly flashed by, where s New, 14 year old girl was talking about her tort n offered an opinion, she was told that she’s too young n when she was older, then.... someone would listen to her. Etc
My point, was she’s only a kid, n she was trying. The response, was passive aggressive in my eyes . Teens, have their own lexicon and way of thinking. They’re much different than an adult. I wish she’d been welcomed n not put down. I’ve tried real hard to find it. Maybe, it’s gone. And I never said people are picking on Me. And I never said, to her 2! In an enclosure. Was good idea. It’s Not. Ruby, does not follow me back n forth in Her, tank, either. She simply walks to her feeding rock n waits. I soak, feed, then let her go in her hide. She comes back out, later and goes to end of tank, to watch my 8 parakeets antics.
When the electric went out in WA for 4 days, her n my python, , went into pillow cases n slept under my covers.
That’s not related, but maybe it’d help someone in the future.
I just don’t grasp the school of thought, that
They are mentally slower n incapable of having
No higher plan of thought/consciousness.
Even insects, learn cause n effect
When Ruby is finished after her soak, she’s parked in front of her Feeding slate rock, waiting for her greens, et al
She then slips into her lil hidey hole To digest n nap. And no, I do not constantly l,Take her out. I AM cognizant of what too much/is.
She does not roam about and try to get out, cause she’s had a “ taste of freedom”, either. She patiently waits, is all. Even if she Did, have a huge enclosure? I’d still let her cruise n explore, outside it. She digs going outside n if there is snow. I hold her up to the sun, for 20 mins or snow. With, no ill effects. I carry her in a plastic, shoe box n I get all sorts of weeds for her, too.
I’m not letting her barrel thru the snow n b too cold. If I don’t let her out for a Stroll~~she’ll just hide.
I’m a new member now that I’ve retired n I just wanted to exchange ideas. Not b Come at, for not doing the Will, of the group. I’m sure others, grow weary like I do, about shaming folks who do things differently. Lights, climates, lights again n so on. Maybe some people, just want specific advice on what sort of tortoise to keep n love. What would it look like, if older, senior people, just gave non critical advice? Not many keepers/ enthusiasts, can afford all the fancy set ups n varied lights they’re convinced they Have, to have. To have. New owners need encouragement and understanding. Not rank and file “ instructions”, of well, do it “ my” way, n so on. Am I glad? A senior member, can offer advice.? Yes. I am. But I feel like the new kid, who’s turn it is, to b Called Out):
I,,,,I do what I, want and I hopefully, give an enlightened response to some others, problems. I’ve had 3, private emails thanking me and 2, others who feel bullied if they don’t rank n file it with the preferred advice. That? Makes me sad. We ALL, at some point in time, were New keepers. In my day, a-forum? That,! would’ve been a dream! Some people, just need to lighten up n not act like know it alls. People and animals, learn at different speeds, with different tools and or, finances.
I? Have my own way of keeping My, reptiles and it works for Me.
You? Do yours. But don’t try to impose ur Will or advice, where I’m concerned. I, will 100%, believe that tortoises have thoughts, emotions and needs and I HAVE seen their little brains,at work, figuring problems out. please people, just give My thoughts on this enclosure/brain work, a glance.
Don’t talk over others, who may not share your views . None of us are Right, every time. Let’s just agree to disagree. Ok?
There’s no one alive ( oh Carl Sagan, I miss you...)
That will impose their Will, onto me without me, reacting.
I think tortoises are smarter than most give credit for and they’re also, Way tougher than we are led to believe. I, just treat mine, like the sensitive lil thing she is, and has proven, to be.
I will not be cowed into silence, nor will I just quietly retreat.
Younger keepers, need to hear and make up theeir own minds and then, apply their thoughts, into their pets care:
I’m kind, fun loving and not afraid to help, in albeit a different
Train of thought. I try not to ascribe any, advice that I’ve not tried before myself. Enjoy ur tortoise! Common sense n instinct, are going by the wayside anymore, because nowadays, people are told “ what”, TO, think.everyone,has to b politicically correct. Blahhhh
Try try try and if it doesn’t produce the result u want? Then figure it out. Ask for help. And when or if it’s offered? Mold it to
Suit You and ur pet. Reptiles, are more than a chapter in an Axelrod book. Take what others offer and decide for yourself. Ok? But don’t try to make me or others who disagree, look less than.
I still don’t really understand how the 14 your old girl relates to us. Was it a post here?
I joined the forum when I was 12, and I am now 15. I have never faced any discrimination because of my age, nor have I seen any. Or was this somewhere else?
 

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