New soon-to-be Indian Star owner looking for advice!

[MickeysMummy]

Hey everyone!

This is my first time here and I'm due to own 2 baby Indian Stars in a few weeks, super excited!

I'm looking for people who can help and advise me on all aspects of care. The Internet is so full of confusing and contradictory information, my head is spinning! It would be great to actually speak to people with experience with Indian Stars so I can provide the best home possible for my new babies.

Look forward to getting to know you all (and your bubbas!)

Regards,

Jo

 

[Cheryl Hills]

This is the right place to be. Up to date info and many exsperts. Sorry I can not help you with Indian Star torts but someone will come along that can

 

[MickeysMummy]

Thanks Cheryl

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello

 

[Nicole M]

Hey everyone!

This is my first time here and I'm due to own 2 baby Indian Stars in a few weeks, super excited!

I'm looking for people who can help and advise me on all aspects of care. The Internet is so full of confusing and contradictory information, my head is spinning! It would be great to actually speak to people with experience with Indian Stars so I can provide the best home possible for my new babies.

Look forward to getting to know you all (and your bubbas!)

Regards,

Jo

Hello and welcome to the forum! Congrats on your soon-to-be babies.

I don't keep stars, but from what I've read here, hatchling star care is much like that of baby sulcatas. I will advise you to keep them separated. Tortoises are solitary, territorial animals and only do well in groups of 3+ (more like 4+) or alone. You can sometimes get away with housing them together for a little while as hatchlings, but since babies are fragile, it's really not worth the risk. When housed together in pairs, the chances of one of the hatchlings dying increases substantially (one will begin to bully the other, which is stressful and weakens the immune system--the less dominant one is also likely to stop eating and/or be injured by the other).

Here are some threads that will help you out!

Beginner mistakes: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

For this with young sulcatas (stars, in your case): http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

How to raise a healthy baby: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

Closed chambers: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

 

[Markw84]

Welcome, Jo! I'm sure you found the section on Indian and Burmese Stars. Lots of good info and conversations there all the time. Browse back over older posts and you can learn a lot from great keepers that actually are doing things right!

Stars are best kept just like the care sheet below on Sulcatas and Leopards. That is an excellent starting point.

How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0

 

[MickeysMummy]

Hello
View attachment 178700

Hello! Thank you

 

[MickeysMummy]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Congrats on your soon-to-be babies.

I don't keep stars, but from what I've read here, hatchling star care is much like that of baby sulcatas. I will advise you to keep them separated. Tortoises are solitary, territorial animals and only do well in groups of 3+ (more like 4+) or alone. You can sometimes get away with housing them together for a little while as hatchlings, but since babies are fragile, it's really not worth the risk. When housed together in pairs, the chances of one of the hatchlings dying increases substantially (one will begin to bully the other, which is stressful and weakens the immune system--the less dominant one is also likely to stop eating and/or be injured by the other).

Here are some threads that will help you out!

Beginner mistakes: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

For this with young sulcatas (stars, in your case): http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

How to raise a healthy baby: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

Closed chambers: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

Thank you so much

 

[MickeysMummy]

Welcome, Jo! I'm sure you found the section on Indian and Burmese Stars. Lots of good info and conversations there all the time. Browse back over older posts and you can learn a lot from great keepers that actually are doing things right!

Stars are best kept just like the care sheet below on Sulcatas and Leopards. That is an excellent starting point.

How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0

Hello,

Thanks so much, I will have a look through that now. I can't believe how much contradictive information there is out there! Hopefully this will help! Thanks again

 

[Markw84]

Please ask us about anything you feel is contradictory and doesn't make sense to you. A lot of the contradictions come from old, outdated information based upon assumptions since the tortoises live in fairly arid, almost desert like environments in many cases. However, it has been found tortoises actually go dormant and simply try to survive the drier times. They wait for the monsoons! The babies hatch, and they all eat, grow and thrive in the monsoon season when it is wet, hot and humid.

Some contradictions may also come from examples you may see from someone that is not taking into account the particular climate of where they are living, and generalizing that their methods will translate to another part of the country or world!

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. I raise my stars exactly the same as I raise my sulcata and leopard babies. It works really well. Nicole and Mark linked all the important threads for you, but I like to try and explain why there is so much contradictory info "out there".

Tortoise keeping has undergone a bit of a revolution in recent years. Old care info was far too dry and based on many incorrect assumptions about the lives of wild tortoises. Yes tortoises can survive dry periods and times of drought sometimes, if they are lucky, but these dry times are not "good" for them. Wild tortoise, and captive tortoises alike, thrive in "monsoon season" conditions. Many older keepers and websites have not kept up and don't realize this new way is far superior. Vets are usually even farther behind the "experts" and breeders, unless you find a good one who actually keeps and raises tortoise on their own.

After reading those threads come back and ask for more explanation or clarification. Ask us to explain every contradiction. We don't mind. We will explain why one way is better than the other and give evidence to back up our assertions.

Last thing: Don't get two. Get one or several. Tortoises don't do well in pairs and they do not need or want company. They don't get lonely.

 

[Tom]

Please ask us about anything you feel is contradictory and doesn't make sense to you. A lot of the contradictions come from old, outdated information based upon assumptions since the tortoises live in fairly arid, almost desert like environments in many cases. However, it has been found tortoises actually go dormant and simply try to survive the drier times. They wait for the monsoons! The babies hatch, and they all eat, grow and thrive in the monsoon season when it is wet, hot and humid.

Some contradictions may also come from examples you may see from someone that is not taking into account the particular climate of where they are living, and generalizing that their methods will translate to another part of the country or world!

HA! We were typing at the same time. Well said, my friend.

 

[MickeysMummy]

Hello and welcome. I raise my stars exactly the same as I raise my sulcata and leopard babies. It works really well. Nicole and Mark linked all the important threads for you, but I like to try and explain why there is so much contradictory info "out there".

Tortoise keeping has undergone a bit of a revolution in recent years. Old care info was far too dry and based on many incorrect assumptions about the lives of wild tortoises. Yes tortoises can survive dry periods and times of drought sometimes, if they are lucky, but these dry times are not "good" for them. Wild tortoise, and captive tortoises alike, thrive in "monsoon season" conditions. Many older keepers and websites have not kept up and don't realize this new way is far superior. Vets are usually even farther behind the "experts" and breeders, unless you find a good one who actually keeps and raises tortoise on their own.

After reading those threads come back and ask for more explanation or clarification. Ask us to explain every contradiction. We don't mind. We will explain why one way is better than the other and give evidence to back up our assertions.

Last thing: Don't get two. Get one or several. Tortoises don't do well in pairs and they do not need or want company. They don't get lonely.

Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it. I will read all the info you guys have posted, thank you.

I'll tell you a little bit about my situation then maybe you can give me some tips!
I had a 3 year old Bearded Dragon who I thought was thriving until he stopped eating 3 months ago. After MANY vet visits it was found he had a tumour in the stomach which turned out to be malignant. I was advised the only thing we could do was operate and the prognosis for his survival was good.
Unfortunately this was not the case and he died the day after the operation and completely broke my heart. I decided I was going to sell his brand new custom made Viv I had only had a few months and not bother anymore, too much heartache!
And then I got to thinking well maybe, I was just unlucky and I know I'm capable of giving something a good home but I can't own Beardies anymore, it just upsets me too much.
But, my other favourite thing in the world is Tortoises! I've always loved them but never had the opportunity to own them, so I did some research and found that the only Tortoises that can live in an indoor Vivarium was Indian Stars. Which is what has prompted me to go for them. I have found an excellent breeder online and have been researching their care ever since!

Basically my Vivarium is 42" long, 23.5" high and 26" deep. It currently has ceramic tiles as substrate. I have been assured these measurement are suitable for 2 Stars by the breeder. My worries are:

What substrate to use? There are sooooo many different opinions on this and I was pretty set on a 70/30 mix of top soil and play sand until I read that the sand is very dangerous! Since then I have been through every substrate you can think of and every time I think I've found the perfect one, I read something bad about it!

How to keep the humidity up and how to accurately measure it? I had a round, stick on Hygrometer for my Beardie which to be honest, I don't think ever really worked!

UVB lighting, I have a brand new 10% Arcadia T8 UVB strip light in the Viv at the moment, with reflector but it's installed at the top of the Viv, which is approximately 21" from the floor. Is this light strong enough? Will it reach as far as the floor?

The breeder said that they could happily live in pairs? I can't really afford more than 2 (they're seriously expensive!) and the Viv is pretty big for just one I think? However I won't get 2 if it's not good for them.

I'm sorry for the novel, I just really want to get this right! Any help you could give would be really appreciated.

 

[Speedy-1]

Hi and welcome Jo !

 

[MickeysMummy]

Hi and welcome Jo !

Hiya Speedy, thank you very much

 

[MickeysMummy]

Welcome, Jo! I'm sure you found the section on Indian and Burmese Stars. Lots of good info and conversations there all the time. Browse back over older posts and you can learn a lot from great keepers that actually are doing things right!

Stars are best kept just like the care sheet below on Sulcatas and Leopards. That is an excellent starting point.

How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0

Thank you so much and I will definitely take you up on your advice! I have written abit of an essay abit further down the thread about my situation and concerns so any help you could offer would be massively appreciated! Thanks again

 

[Tom]

Your novel helps us understand where you are coming from. You are getting all sorts of mixed info. I'm sorry about that. We can only share what we've learned and try to help.

Indian stars are no different than any other species as far as living indoors or out. Indoors full time is not good for any species. Especially not for adults. It can be done, and it can be done successfully (depending on how you define successful). It just depends on how much you want to spend and how much time and effort you want to put in.

Indian stars are a pretty tortoise, but they can also be a bit sensitive. I would not recommend that as a first tortoise to someone who is still sensitive about losing their last pet. There are other species that don't stress as easily and have more outgoing bold personalities.

Something to consider: What do I stand to gain or lose by telling you to only buy one tortoise? What does the seller stand to gain if you buy two instead of one? I'd rather sell two babies than one too!

Fine grade orchid bark is what I raised my baby stars on and it worked great. Coco coir is safe to use too, but its messier. I would never use soil or sand.

Your vivarium is a good size for a hatchling, but its too small for an adult. Way to small for a group of adults.

There are many good digital hygrometers that you can buy. @G-stars can you link that good one for us again?

You keep humidity up by closing the top, using a damp substrate, having a large shallow water dish, and using a humid hide.

Arcadia makes good quality products, but the only way to know if your bulb is making enough UV is to put a UV meter under it and check. This will be a required piece of equipment for you, if you intend to keep this tortoise indoors all the time. https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

If you are limited to that size enclosure and only want to keep the new pet indoors, I would not recommend an Indian Star tortoise for you. It sounds like you have been mislead. Maybe not intentionally, but my opinion certainly differs from that of whoever told you the things you are basing this all on. Have you considered other pets that might be better for indoors full time? Blue tongue skinks are easy to care for and make excellent pets. Your enclosure would suit one just fine.

 

[Markw84]

I agree with everything Tom just said. Great advice!

 

[MickeysMummy]

Your novel helps us understand where you are coming from. You are getting all sorts of mixed info. I'm sorry about that. We can only share what we've learned and try to help.

Indian stars are no different than any other species as far as living indoors or out. Indoors full time is not good for any species. Especially not for adults. It can be done, and it can be done successfully (depending on how you define successful). It just depends on how much you want to spend and how much time and effort you want to put in.

Indian stars are a pretty tortoise, but they can also be a bit sensitive. I would not recommend that as a first tortoise to someone who is still sensitive about losing their last pet. There are other species that don't stress as easily and have more outgoing bold personalities.

Something to consider: What do I stand to gain or lose by telling you to only buy one tortoise? What does the seller stand to gain if you buy two instead of one? I'd rather sell two babies than one too!

Fine grade orchid bark is what I raised my baby stars on and it worked great. Coco coir is safe to use too, but its messier. I would never use soil or sand.

Your vivarium is a good size for a hatchling, but its too small for an adult. Way to small for a group of adults.

There are many good digital hygrometers that you can buy. @G-stars can you link that good one for us again?

You keep humidity up by closing the top, using a damp substrate, having a large shallow water dish, and using a humid hide.

Arcadia makes good quality products, but the only way to know if your bulb is making enough UV is to put a UV meter under it and check. This will be a required piece of equipment for you, if you intend to keep this tortoise indoors all the time. https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

If you are limited to that size enclosure and only want to keep the new pet indoors, I would not recommend an Indian Star tortoise for you. It sounds like you have been mislead. Maybe not intentionally, but my opinion certainly differs from that of whoever told you the things you are basing this all on. Have you considered other pets that might be better for indoors full time? Blue tongue skinks are easy to care for and make excellent pets. Your enclosure would suit one just fine.

Hi Tom, thanks so much for your reply. I genuinely do really appreciate the help.

I think I was advised Indian Stars mainly for 2 reasons, the first being that they can live in a Vivarium quite happily (or so I was told!) and the second being that they don't hibernate. It was a priority of mine when searching for Torts that I get one (or 2) that don't hibernate. So as far as I know, Indian Stars were the only thing that matched that criteria.

I did consider other reptiles, I actually did look at Blue Tongue Skinks but my love for Torts took over! I have already paid for them and have bought a lot of stuff for them so I'm going to have to stick with them but I do have a big garden and I do plan on making some sort of enclosure for them to spend time in outside. However, I wouldn't want them outside over night as there are a lot of foxes where I am and my garden is a foxes paradise at night! But when the weather is good I shall be making sure they get plenty of outdoor time, I'd never want to confine them to the Viv full time. I could also, in time, get a bigger indoor enclosure. If at some point I feel they are outgrowing my current Vivarium then I shall definitely get them something bigger. Also I am more than happy to devote as much time as needed to them so making sure they have everything they need to thrive won't be an issue.

You're absolutely right when you say you have nothing to gain in advising me just to get the one. So I will take your advice and just get one, I'm pretty sure my breeder will be fine with that.

I'll also go with fine grade orchid bark as you said. I guess there are pros and cons with every substrate but I'm happy to go with the opinion of someone experienced! So thanks for that.

You've been a brilliant help, thanks so much

 

[G-stars]

Here is the one I use and recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WTH3NQ/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20