New to forum - looking for advice/opinions!

brefox

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
Kansas
Hey guys! My name's Bre and I have had my sulcata, Yahtzee, for 2 years this summer. He is about 8lbs and I just confirmed that he is in fact male, due to his genitalia making an appearance during his afternoon playtime out of his enclosure yesterday. TMI? Maybe, but I want you all to be informed before I start asking questions! ? I have frequently visited this forum for advice over the past year and a half, and many of you have unknowingly helped me out so much along the way... Yahtzee is my first reptile so I have been learning a lot through this experience, and I've found it's really difficult to find reliable tortoise care information - but I seem to find the best tips here!

Anyway, I thought since I am in this tortoise care thing for the long haul, I should just make a profile so I can just post my questions about Yahtzee rather than sort through tons of other posts looking for applicable answers. I have lots to learn and lots of questions... So with that, here are my current questions/concerns about my tort!

My questions mainly stem from me wondering about his growth/maturation rate, and I suppose diet as those are usually related. He has obviously grown really fast, which his breeder told me to expect based on his growth over the first 3-4mo of his life... But if he is growing too fast I don't want to be contributing by feeding him incorrectly or other poor husbandry. He eats romaine lettuce in the morning, maybe a small piece of kale, or a small amount of green beans, green pepper, or cucumber depending on what veggies I'm prepping for myself that day, and a heap of timothy hay. He also has cuttle bone free choice and he gets soaked Mazuri pellets mixed with a spoonful of pumpkin at night. I know many of you discourage feeding Mazuri every day, and I am in the process of weaning him off of it more now that he's eating more hay (he didn't eat hay for a long time when he was little, but has recently started eating it - I would say hay is probably 50% of his diet most days now). His enclosure is 8'x4' with a hide on one end, and the other end has his ceramic heat emitter and UVB bulb with a cement slab for him to sit on which he LOVES (plus it helps file his nails). He plays outside of his enclosure for an hour or two most days, either running around my house or outside if it's warm enough and I have time to supervise. I'd be happy to hear if anyone has suggestions on diet/husbandry!

My main question is about his shell. I noticed today that he has two spots about the size of my fingernail that are peeling - but it's only the very top layer, almost like it's just the waterproofing layer of his shell if that makes sense. But underneath it doesn't look much different than the areas around that aren't peeling. He soaks in my bathtub every day and is very well hydrated (he pees a lot of clear pee in addition to low amounts of urates). I was wondering if this peeling is a husbandry issue or if it's due to his growth rate (or something else completely?). These spots almost look like he just grew so fast the outer layer/coating of his shell just didn't keep up, and just split/peeled. Has anyone else had this issue with their torts or have any ideas of why this might have happened? Pictures below (and a couple unrelated pics of Yahtzee, just because!).

Follow-up question, also related to his shell: I accidentally dropped him from 3-4ft up when he was little (and yes, I felt HORRIBLE ?, still do). This is the only "trauma" this guy has ever experienced, at least in my care, but he appears to have a "scar" of sorts on his shell that has caused a scute or two to grow a little weird. I don't have a picture right now and he has tucked himself into his sleepytime corner for the evening so I don't want to bother him, but I can get a picture later if needed. I was just wondering if I need to be concerned long term about his shell growing with a "scar". It seems to be remodeling well so far, but I wondered if anyone has experience with shell damage like this and if there are any future complications I need to be aware of!

Sorry for the novel, I just realized I wrote a ton. Thanks for reading if you made it this far! Looking forward to hearing you guys' thoughts!

yahtzee1.jpgyahtzee2.jpgyahtzee3.jpgyahtzee4.jpg
 

vladimir

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
1,484
Location (City and/or State)
Pennsylvania
Hi, and welcome to the forum! I have a five year old sulcata that we adopted three years ago at 4lbs. He's pushing 53lbs last time we weighed him.

Overall Yahtzee looks great! I wouldn't worry about the slight peeling - Vlad has some spots like that over the years, and as he's gotten bigger he's been less careful about banging into things with his shell, and now just pushes stuff out of the way ?

I would try getting Escarole or Chickory/Endive instead of Romaine. Tom has some posts with recommendations scattered around, ilke this one: https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-grocery-shop.89671/post-835382

We used to feed bell peppers as a treat, but we found it upset his stomach so we phased that out.

You said he soaks daily? Great! What are the temperatures like in his enclosure? Ambient temperature during the day and at night, and the temp under the basking light? What's the ambient room temperature of the room he's in?

One thing you'll probably get feedback on is allowing him to roam outside of his enclosure. They're so quick at picking something up and eating it that it can be a recipe for disaster. Do you have an outside enclosure for him at all?

Here's the thread detailing the indoor enclosure I built for Vladimir a few years ago, in case it might help any ideas.

 

Maggie3fan

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
8,046
Location (City and/or State)
PacificNorthWest
Hey guys! My name's Bre and I have had my sulcata, Yahtzee, for 2 years this summer. He is about 8lbs and I just confirmed that he is in fact male, due to his genitalia making an appearance during his afternoon playtime out of his enclosure yesterday. TMI? Maybe, but I want you all to be informed before I start asking questions! ? I have frequently visited this forum for advice over the past year and a half, and many of you have unknowingly helped me out so much along the way... Yahtzee is my first reptile so I have been learning a lot through this experience, and I've found it's really difficult to find reliable tortoise care information - but I seem to find the best tips here!

Anyway, I thought since I am in this tortoise care thing for the long haul, I should just make a profile so I can just post my questions about Yahtzee rather than sort through tons of other posts looking for applicable answers. I have lots to learn and lots of questions... So with that, here are my current questions/concerns about my tort!

My questions mainly stem from me wondering about his growth/maturation rate, and I suppose diet as those are usually related. He has obviously grown really fast, which his breeder told me to expect based on his growth over the first 3-4mo of his life... But if he is growing too fast I don't want to be contributing by feeding him incorrectly or other poor husbandry. He eats romaine lettuce in the morning, maybe a small piece of kale, or a small amount of green beans, green pepper, or cucumber depending on what veggies I'm prepping for myself that day, and a heap of timothy hay. He also has cuttle bone free choice and he gets soaked Mazuri pellets mixed with a spoonful of pumpkin at night. I know many of you discourage feeding Mazuri every day, and I am in the process of weaning him off of it more now that he's eating more hay (he didn't eat hay for a long time when he was little, but has recently started eating it - I would say hay is probably 50% of his diet most days now). His enclosure is 8'x4' with a hide on one end, and the other end has his ceramic heat emitter and UVB bulb with a cement slab for him to sit on which he LOVES (plus it helps file his nails). He plays outside of his enclosure for an hour or two most days, either running around my house or outside if it's warm enough and I have time to supervise. I'd be happy to hear if anyone has suggestions on diet/husbandry!

My main question is about his shell. I noticed today that he has two spots about the size of my fingernail that are peeling - but it's only the very top layer, almost like it's just the waterproofing layer of his shell if that makes sense. But underneath it doesn't look much different than the areas around that aren't peeling. He soaks in my bathtub every day and is very well hydrated (he pees a lot of clear pee in addition to low amounts of urates). I was wondering if this peeling is a husbandry issue or if it's due to his growth rate (or something else completely?). These spots almost look like he just grew so fast the outer layer/coating of his shell just didn't keep up, and just split/peeled. Has anyone else had this issue with their torts or have any ideas of why this might have happened? Pictures below (and a couple unrelated pics of Yahtzee, just because!).

Follow-up question, also related to his shell: I accidentally dropped him from 3-4ft up when he was little (and yes, I felt HORRIBLE ?, still do). This is the only "trauma" this guy has ever experienced, at least in my care, but he appears to have a "scar" of sorts on his shell that has caused a scute or two to grow a little weird. I don't have a picture right now and he has tucked himself into his sleepytime corner for the evening so I don't want to bother him, but I can get a picture later if needed. I was just wondering if I need to be concerned long term about his shell growing with a "scar". It seems to be remodeling well so far, but I wondered if anyone has experience with shell damage like this and if there are any future complications I need to be aware of!

Sorry for the novel, I just realized I wrote a ton. Thanks for reading if you made it this far! Looking forward to hearing you guys' thoughts!
How are you keeping the humidity up? Your substrate is too dry...what is holding the lights up, wire screen? No water dish? No hide? Your habitat is too open for the required humidity. Just a few ideas...
 

brefox

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
Kansas
Hi, and welcome to the forum! I have a five year old sulcata that we adopted three years ago at 4lbs. He's pushing 53lbs last time we weighed him.

Overall Yahtzee looks great! I wouldn't worry about the slight peeling - Vlad has some spots like that over the years, and as he's gotten bigger he's been less careful about banging into things with his shell, and now just pushes stuff out of the way ?

I would try getting Escarole or Chickory/Endive instead of Romaine. Tom has some posts with recommendations scattered around, ilke this one: https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-grocery-shop.89671/post-835382

We used to feed bell peppers as a treat, but we found it upset his stomach so we phased that out.

You said he soaks daily? Great! What are the temperatures like in his enclosure? Ambient temperature during the day and at night, and the temp under the basking light? What's the ambient room temperature of the room he's in?

One thing you'll probably get feedback on is allowing him to roam outside of his enclosure. They're so quick at picking something up and eating it that it can be a recipe for disaster. Do you have an outside enclosure for him at all?

Here's the thread detailing the indoor enclosure I built for Vladimir a few years ago, in case it might help any ideas.


Thanks for the feedback!

Yes he soaks most days, sometimes every other day if I get home late. This is partly because I know his enclosure humidity is probably inadequate because of its size, so it is somewhat of an attempt to combat that issue (although I know it's probably not a good enough attempt). I often dump water on his shell, legs, and head when he soaks partly to get him accustomed to some different sensations but also to make sure they are getting some moisture. I am open to suggestions on how to make his enclosure better humidity-wise. Ambient temperature in the majority of his enclosure is the same as the room because of its openness, usually around 68-70*. Basking temp is usually around 90*. His heat emitter is on all the time so he can go under the heat day or night. The light is on 12hr/day.

As far as roaming outside his enclosure, usually it is inside the house on our laminate floors and I make sure the floor is clear before letting him out so he doesn't eat anything weird. I'm in the process of making an outdoor enclosure that I can rotate around the yard so he can be out during the day in the spring/summer to graze in areas that I will check ahead of time for things he can get into... you're right, he's very curious and will eat just about anything that's a color he likes ? . Up until now when he roams outside I watch him closely and keep him in appropriate areas.
 

brefox

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
Kansas
How are you keeping the humidity up? Your substrate is too dry...what is holding the lights up, wire screen? No water dish? No hide? Your habitat is too open for the required humidity. Just a few ideas...

Humidity I think is what I need to learn about most. I've been thinking of ways I can make that better in this enclosure - we just built this one a week or two ago and he has settled in really well, but humidity is an issue. He definitely needed something this size though so it's something I will have to figure out! The light/heater are sitting on chicken wire. I've been repurposing pieces of his old enclosures as he grows (the shelf piece the light and heater are sitting on is a section of the lid of his old table) and also wanted to be able to use the same domes for his light and heater. The table that the "shelf" is attached to is his old turtle table that our other smaller tort is now occupying. He doesn't have a water dish because he soaks every day in my bathtub and he loves to have space available in his enclosure to walk :). I was thinking about incorporating a water element in this enclosure, but since I've been working from home lately I've noticed he uses just about every inch of the 8'x4' space so I don't really want to take the space from him when I can just keep soaking him. Also the picture I posted doesn't show the full enclosure - he does have a hide on the "cold" side of the enclosure but he really doesn't use it much - he would rather dig a "burrow" in the open corners. I know a humid hide is a way that some people provide humidity, but honestly I don't think he uses the hide enough to benefit from that.

I have a humidifier I can put near his enclosure to help with humidity... My sister has a snake who requires a humidifier and it has a tube that helps to direct the vapor to a certain part of the snake's enclosure so I was thinking about getting a similar setup so I can direct where it goes a little. I also thought about using a watering can to dampen his substrate each day. What do you think about these ideas? What would you do differently? Thanks!
 

vladimir

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
1,484
Location (City and/or State)
Pennsylvania
You'll get the best humidity by covering the enclosure.

Some people have used mini greenhouses to enclose everyything, like this one: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/mini-greenhouse-as-a-closed-chamber.94895/

Here's another:


and


I would work on making it more of a "closed chamber", even if it's just with plastic, rather than adding a humidifier. If it's enclosed enough, you should be able to maintain humidity with the dampening the substrate.

It will also help keep the heat in. We try to keep the ambient temperature in the enclosure as close to 80F as possible, with a heated box he can go in that is set at 86F.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hey guys! My name's Bre and I have had my sulcata, Yahtzee, for 2 years this summer. He is about 8lbs and I just confirmed that he is in fact male, due to his genitalia making an appearance during his afternoon playtime out of his enclosure yesterday. TMI? Maybe, but I want you all to be informed before I start asking questions! ? I have frequently visited this forum for advice over the past year and a half, and many of you have unknowingly helped me out so much along the way... Yahtzee is my first reptile so I have been learning a lot through this experience, and I've found it's really difficult to find reliable tortoise care information - but I seem to find the best tips here!

Anyway, I thought since I am in this tortoise care thing for the long haul, I should just make a profile so I can just post my questions about Yahtzee rather than sort through tons of other posts looking for applicable answers. I have lots to learn and lots of questions... So with that, here are my current questions/concerns about my tort!

My questions mainly stem from me wondering about his growth/maturation rate, and I suppose diet as those are usually related. He has obviously grown really fast, which his breeder told me to expect based on his growth over the first 3-4mo of his life... But if he is growing too fast I don't want to be contributing by feeding him incorrectly or other poor husbandry. He eats romaine lettuce in the morning, maybe a small piece of kale, or a small amount of green beans, green pepper, or cucumber depending on what veggies I'm prepping for myself that day, and a heap of timothy hay. He also has cuttle bone free choice and he gets soaked Mazuri pellets mixed with a spoonful of pumpkin at night. I know many of you discourage feeding Mazuri every day, and I am in the process of weaning him off of it more now that he's eating more hay (he didn't eat hay for a long time when he was little, but has recently started eating it - I would say hay is probably 50% of his diet most days now). His enclosure is 8'x4' with a hide on one end, and the other end has his ceramic heat emitter and UVB bulb with a cement slab for him to sit on which he LOVES (plus it helps file his nails). He plays outside of his enclosure for an hour or two most days, either running around my house or outside if it's warm enough and I have time to supervise. I'd be happy to hear if anyone has suggestions on diet/husbandry!

My main question is about his shell. I noticed today that he has two spots about the size of my fingernail that are peeling - but it's only the very top layer, almost like it's just the waterproofing layer of his shell if that makes sense. But underneath it doesn't look much different than the areas around that aren't peeling. He soaks in my bathtub every day and is very well hydrated (he pees a lot of clear pee in addition to low amounts of urates). I was wondering if this peeling is a husbandry issue or if it's due to his growth rate (or something else completely?). These spots almost look like he just grew so fast the outer layer/coating of his shell just didn't keep up, and just split/peeled. Has anyone else had this issue with their torts or have any ideas of why this might have happened? Pictures below (and a couple unrelated pics of Yahtzee, just because!).

Follow-up question, also related to his shell: I accidentally dropped him from 3-4ft up when he was little (and yes, I felt HORRIBLE ?, still do). This is the only "trauma" this guy has ever experienced, at least in my care, but he appears to have a "scar" of sorts on his shell that has caused a scute or two to grow a little weird. I don't have a picture right now and he has tucked himself into his sleepytime corner for the evening so I don't want to bother him, but I can get a picture later if needed. I was just wondering if I need to be concerned long term about his shell growing with a "scar". It seems to be remodeling well so far, but I wondered if anyone has experience with shell damage like this and if there are any future complications I need to be aware of!

Sorry for the novel, I just realized I wrote a ton. Thanks for reading if you made it this far! Looking forward to hearing you guys' thoughts!
His size is normal for a well started baby that is eating Mazuri every day.

Grocery store greens by themselves are a poor diet. If you must use that stuff to get through winter, you need to amend it with "herbal hay" from tortoisesupply.com, soaked ZooMed Pellets, occasional Mazuri, or many of the dried offerings from Will @Kapidolo Farms

Its great that he's eating the hay now, but I'd switch to orchard grass hay or Bermuda. Or use a mix of all three.

Personally, for a tortoise this size, I think it is fine to have no water bowl if you are soaking every day, or close to it. This is debatable and others may have a different opinion.

Your enclosure is too small for a tortoise of this size and species. At this size I move them outside full time with a heated night box into an enclosure that is somewhere around 30x30'. I don't know how to do that practically in your climate, but letting him out to roam the floor is a recipe for disaster. It is too cold down there, and no matter how careful you are, accidents are going to happen. Its just a matter of time. Here are some examples I've seen from the many exotic animal vets I work with as part of my career. Tortoise's head squished in the door jamb when she re-entered the room. Impaction from swallowing all sorts of times that people didn't know were there. I've seen 2" sewing needles, "Monopoly" pieces, buttons, towels, socks, rocks, gravel, a gold necklace with a heart shaped locket, and many other items in tortoise x rays. If you could see, hear, and smell, just one tortoise impaction surgery in person, you would never do this again. I've seen tortoises get lost outside in the blink of an eye, and had that happen to me in years past. "He was just here, and I _______ for just one second, and he disappeared..." That is a sickening feeling. I've seen broken legs from a spouse or a kid accidentally stepping on or kicking a tortoise they didn't know was there. Every single one of these people was sure they had made it safe and they all supervised very closely. Just don't do it. Keep your tortoise in its enclosure both indoors and out.

Your tortoise is too big for overhead heat lamps now. You will continue to see damage on the carapace, and it will progressively get worse as the tortoise grows. As he gains mass, the lamps will be less and less effective at helping him warm his core temp, while doing more and more damage to the carapace. What I do is offer them a large heated house the same size as your enclosure within a large outdoor enclosure where they can warm themselves in the sun in my warm climate. In your area, you'll need to make a large warm area and have some area where the tortoise can get warmer than ambient when it needs to. Sound daunting? It is. I don't know how people do it in areas with frozen winters with a giant tropical tortoise. Time to start thinking about Kane heat mats, radiant heat panels, and oil filled radiant heaters to warm up large areas.

The flaking you are seeing is due to dryness. In the wild they stay underground in warm humid burrows during the dry times. The best time of year for them is the hot, wet, rainy, ultra-humid monsoon season. The way for you to help this, and also the heat his enclosure much more efficiently is to make a large closed chamber. Having the enclosure open to the room air allows all your heat and humidity to escape. You basically need a whole room where the floor temp is kept at 80 (Ambient room temp at 80 can leave the floor much too cold at 65-70.), and then you just need a warming area up to 95ish. A warmer ambient temp will also mean less basking under the desiccating electric heat sources. You could run a humidifier in this room to help, but I wouldn't use a humidifier in your current enclosure.

I wouldn't worry about the drop at all. Nothing you can do about it now. It is what it is.

Questions and conversation about any of this is welcome.
 

New Posts

Top