New to Leopard tortoises, Hi from Idaho!

[JanelP]

Just wanted to pop in and say Hi!
I was born and raised in Las Vegas NV, and had numerous desert tortoise rescues growing up as far as I can remember. It's been about 15 years since I've owned a tortoise, even though working in the vet field we see them occasionally. Leopards are totally new to me. I must say, however, being here researching my own tortoise, I'm realizing how many tortoises are not being properly taken care of out there.
I wanted a tortoise again and while doing research I figured leopards would fit my lifestyle and my abilities to care for them the best. Beautiful creatures. Beautiful markings. So now I introduce you to Morla.

She is 5 months old, and when I saw her I fell in love with her.
She has some shell defects that make her undesireable, however I am researching to see what, how, why, and if I can correct it. So I kinda got her at a discount. I don't mind though. My whole clan are a bunch of misfits.
I look forward to browsing, learning, and making the best home possible for her.

PS She is eating a little pansy. They are my favorite flower so I have TONS of them around. Quinquidink? I think not....

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome.

 

[Stuart S.]

Welcome! Congrats on your new baby!

 

[Destben]

WELCOME! She looks Beautiful!

 

[Brit G]

Wow, so cute! Envious that a leopard fits your lifestyle, as they are my favorite but will not fit mine! <3

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome to our Forum!

 

[rnchick74]

Welcome!

 

[JanelP]

So I have a couple questions as I'm reading though about leos. Morlas doing well. Shes 6 months old. was 84 grams when I got her. now 10 days later she is 104 grams, so I know shes growing. She has healthy poops in her soaks. Her home is a 50ga breeder tank 4 foot x 2 foot and 10 inches tall. substrate coco cir mix with very small amount of sand. Closed up, her hide area has moss the infrared ranges 94-98 degrees and humidity 70-90 percent with me misting down the foliage and moss with a air mister twice daily. I have infared heater 100wt and a WMB basking light that gets to 105 during the day. 2 other hides and foliage coldest part of the tank i've seen at 77 with the temp gun at night, but most of the time its 79-82. have a 24inch 4 bulb t5ho fixture with 2 reptisun 10.0 bulbs and 2 plant grow bulbs that are on from when I get up to when I go to bed, usually 14 hours atleast.
ok questions.
So I got her slightly discounted do to her shell having undesirable blemishes. Can Babies pyrimiad? Can it start from the time they are born? I'm begiining to wonder if thats her problem. the scutes down her back scoop in as well as pyrimiad up, and I have not seen this in the other pictures people post. Is this something different? Can it be fixed? Does her shell have a chance at smoothing out with proper care? If it is the keratin laying down, is there anything to treat the shell with to help with moisturizer? I don't see anyone talk about putting anything on the shell. I've only seen one OTC product and it looks like crap. But what about bagbalm, or aquaphor, something light just to help keep the moisture in? Anywho. Just curious. I just want to do the best I can.

 

[rnchick74]

If you do a search on the forum about pyramiding, closed enclosures, and humidity in young torts you will find a ton of answers!

 

[Tom]

So I have a couple questions as I'm reading though about leos. Morlas doing well. Shes 6 months old. was 84 grams when I got her. now 10 days later she is 104 grams, so I know shes growing. She has healthy poops in her soaks. Her home is a 50ga breeder tank 4 foot x 2 foot and 10 inches tall. substrate coco cir mix with very small amount of sand. Closed up, her hide area has moss the infrared ranges 94-98 degrees and humidity 70-90 percent with me misting down the foliage and moss with a air mister twice daily. I have infared heater 100wt and a WMB basking light that gets to 105 during the day. 2 other hides and foliage coldest part of the tank i've seen at 77 with the temp gun at night, but most of the time its 79-82. have a 24inch 4 bulb t5ho fixture with 2 reptisun 10.0 bulbs and 2 plant grow bulbs that are on from when I get up to when I go to bed, usually 14 hours atleast.
ok questions.
So I got her slightly discounted do to her shell having undesirable blemishes. Can Babies pyrimiad? Can it start from the time they are born? I'm begiining to wonder if thats her problem. the scutes down her back scoop in as well as pyrimiad up, and I have not seen this in the other pictures people post. Is this something different? Can it be fixed? Does her shell have a chance at smoothing out with proper care? If it is the keratin laying down, is there anything to treat the shell with to help with moisturizer? I don't see anyone talk about putting anything on the shell. I've only seen one OTC product and it looks like crap. But what about bagbalm, or aquaphor, something light just to help keep the moisture in? Anywho. Just curious. I just want to do the best I can.

Looks like you've gotten some of the typical bad advice. I'll hit the high points and then link the care sheet for you to consider.

• 84-104 in 10 days, means the baby was likely dehydrated, and your soaks have rehydrated her. The pyramiding on the shell suggests this baby was kept far too dry. And yes, they can and do begin pyramiding on day one in dry conditions. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry.
• An open topped tank with 10 inch tall sides will be impossible to keep warn and humid enough and you will need a lot of desiccating electric heat to try to keep it warm enough. This will make the pyramiding worse. You need a large closed chamber with the heat and lights inside and 80+% humidity.
• Moss in the hide, or anywhere else, is not a good idea. They try to eat it and it can cause an impaction.
• No sand. Not any. It is a huge impaction risk and a possible skin and eye irritant. Fine grade orchid bark works best as a substrate.
• I wouldn't use plant bulbs over a tortoise. Wrong color. Do you know the "K" rating of those bulbs? 5000-6500K is good. And these should be on a timer for about 12-13 hours.
• No infrared or any other colored bulbs. Use a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel to maintain night and ambient temps. Run it on a thermostat like this: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
• Basking area should be 95-100. 105 is going to dry out the carapace too much.
• A warmer day time ambient temp, into the low 90s, will make them bask under the desiccating incandescent bulbs less often and for shorter duration.
• If you get this baby into the right environment and really work hard at it, you can eventually stop the pyramiding and get smoother growth. You will need an enclosure like one of these: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/o...r-new-group-of-tortoises.138430/#post-1295801 or https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-stack-of-animal-plastics-closed-chambers.165626/
• In addition to the right enclosure, you will need to soak daily, limit outdoor time to about an hour a day, spray the carapace several times a day, and keep the enclosure very humid all the time.
• Some people do use coconut oil and other things to attempt to make the shell grow smoother. It is a complicated mess of differing opinions and experiences, and my experiments with it failed to yield good results. I have the best results with a simple closed chamber and the steps I outlined above.

Please feel free to question any or all of this. Your questions will help all of us learn and will continue the tortoise conversation.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

More food suggestions, but a bit less grass for a regular leopard. If you scroll down, there is a good list of foods:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[JanelP]

Thank you Tom for replying to me. I have read though these and am trying to change some of the mistakes I got before I stumbled on here and as I read and learn more. I will read and reread them more. To answer yes the 2 plant bulbs are 6500k. they came with the light fixture. Idaho is still a bit chilly right now to keep put her outside at all, so I wanted to make sure she had the best "like sun" light possible and I didnt know if putting 4 reptisun bulbs in the fixture over her cage would be too much. This is the only reason why I do 50/50. Plus I ordered some of the leo grazing seeds from tort supply and am making little micro pastures that I can put in her indoor pen so she can graze more. I thought this might be easier to keep her diet more consistant in the winter when she has to live indoors.
Thanks again. I may bug you with more questions in the future, and hopefully some of this above is ok too. :}

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom for replying to me. I have read though these and am trying to change some of the mistakes I got before I stumbled on here and as I read and learn more. I will read and reread them more. To answer yes the 2 plant bulbs are 6500k. they came with the light fixture. Idaho is still a bit chilly right now to keep put her outside at all, so I wanted to make sure she had the best "like sun" light possible and I didnt know if putting 4 reptisun bulbs in the fixture over her cage would be too much. This is the only reason why I do 50/50. Plus I ordered some of the leo grazing seeds from tort supply and am making little micro pastures that I can put in her indoor pen so she can graze more. I thought this might be easier to keep her diet more consistant in the winter when she has to live indoors.
Thanks again. I may bug you with more questions in the future, and hopefully some of this above is ok too. :}

The lights sound great and I think the little micro pastures will serve you well.

 

[JanelP]

How much should a baby be eating, and how often?
She is still so shy, the food I put in, in the morning she eats while I'm at work, but on weekends I don't see her eating. The room is busier. TV on, but nothing bothering her. I'm so paranoid. I give her fresh every morning. A lot of things I read say they like to eat after soaking, however Morla likes to take a nap. She doesn't hand feed from me either. She will eat the viloas, but no other flowers. she likes the greens. Dandilion green and hibicus greens are her fav.
When I got grazing seeds from tort supply I got hay as well. tried dry, no luck. here I soaked it and thats on there too. Do Tortoises smell their food? (that hay smells amazing BTW)is that how they choose? Do they see color? so they like brilliant colors?

 

[Antoni]

How much should a baby be eating, and how often?
She is still so shy, the food I put in, in the morning she eats while I'm at work, but on weekends I don't see her eating. The room is busier. TV on, but nothing bothering her. I'm so paranoid. I give her fresh every morning. A lot of things I read say they like to eat after soaking, however Morla likes to take a nap. She doesn't hand feed from me either. She will eat the viloas, but no other flowers. she likes the greens. Dandilion green and hibicus greens are her fav.
When I got grazing seeds from tort supply I got hay as well. tried dry, no luck. here I soaked it and thats on there too. Do Tortoises smell their food? (that hay smells amazing BTW)is that how they choose? Do they see color? so they like brilliant colors?

View attachment 238448

Hello, im raising leopards myself. I give them outside time when weather permits. They are about 3-4 months old, one of then looking the same size as ur one. My point... they just nibbled on the grass, didnt really eat them. They seem to enjoy leafy greens such as romaine, spring mixes, collard/turnip greens. The grass may be too tough for it still? Anyway aside from the leafy greens, i feed mazuri about 3x a week, with calcium powder on the same days 3x a week. Make sure ur temps are also good, if the tort is cold, they have a problen digesting food. Im also a begginer, just sharing what ive learned from kamp kenan videos and this forum haha. Hope I’m able to help. They also love Spineless Cactus pods. I havent given them flowers, i tried the dried fruit they have for torts at the pet store, i read that fruits should only be fed about 1-2x a month lol. Anyway hope this helped.

 

[Tom]

How much should a baby be eating, and how often?
She is still so shy, the food I put in, in the morning she eats while I'm at work, but on weekends I don't see her eating. The room is busier. TV on, but nothing bothering her. I'm so paranoid. I give her fresh every morning. A lot of things I read say they like to eat after soaking, however Morla likes to take a nap. She doesn't hand feed from me either. She will eat the viloas, but no other flowers. she likes the greens. Dandilion green and hibicus greens are her fav.
When I got grazing seeds from tort supply I got hay as well. tried dry, no luck. here I soaked it and thats on there too. Do Tortoises smell their food? (that hay smells amazing BTW)is that how they choose? Do they see color? so they like brilliant colors?

Regular leopard tortoises are often not big fans of grass. Many won't eat it at all. Rehydrated grass hay even less so. You might have better luck introducing it when the tortoise is bigger. For now I would stick to mostly leafy greens, leaves and flowers and also succulents. They should eat a pile about as big as they are daily.

Yes they smell their food, and they have better color vision than we do.

 

[Tom]

Im also a begginer, just sharing what ive learned from kamp kenan videos and this forum haha.

Most of the advice you offered was good, but you and anyone reading needs to be aware that Kenan is not a good example to follow and not a good source of info on how to raise babies.

And fruit should never be offered. If its so and that you can only feed it once or twice a month, why feed it at all?

Last thing is that your tortoise would be much better off with the right weeds and leaves instead of so much grocery store food.

 

[Antoni]

Most of the advice you offered was good, but you and anyone reading needs to be aware that Kenan is not a good example to follow and not a good source of info on how to raise babies.

And fruit should never be offered. If its so and that you can only feed it once or twice a month, why feed it at all?

Last thing is that your tortoise would be much better off with the right weeds and leaves instead of so much grocery store food.

I read the stuff about the fruits after i bought it, i wanted to see how much i could feed them fruits turned out it wasn’t a good idea lol so ive only fed them the diced fruits once and it wasnt alot. As far as grocery food, im in the process of growing my own food, but for now i have to rely on them. Ive read ur care sheet and i try to implement everything that i can on it.

 

[JanelP]

Regular leopard tortoises are often not big fans of grass. Many won't eat it at all. Rehydrated grass hay even less so. You might have better luck introducing it when the tortoise is bigger. For now I would stick to mostly leafy greens, leaves and flowers and also succulents. They should eat a pile about as big as they are daily.

Yes they smell their food, and they have better color vision than we do.

Thank you for this. Just what I wanted to know. I've been taking from my yard because I know I don't use pesticides or fertilizer. Now to find some good sites that ID pics of weeds until my own grow. I'll stop by a local nursery for some suculants as well. I've been considering ordering the cacti pads, but I hate for them to go to waste. How long would they last?

 

[Tom]

Thank you for this. Just what I wanted to know. I've been taking from my yard because I know I don't use pesticides or fertilizer. Now to find some good sites that ID pics of weeds until my own grow. I'll stop by a local nursery for some suculants as well. I've been considering ordering the cacti pads, but I hate for them to go to waste. How long would they last?

Pads last for months. Keep them outdoors in a well ventilated area if possible. Indoors is okay too, but somewhere with good ventilation. Don't put them in any sort of container. They only go bad if you put them in a fridge or somehow wrap them up. Leave them open to the air and they will last a long time. I've had cut pads sit in my breeze way here for almost a year with 100+ degree summer days and freezing winter nights.