New to Tortoises, meet Stoli :D

xBapes

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Hi everyone,

Just wanted to introduce myself and my Russian tortoise, Stoli (like the Russian vodka ). I recently "rescued" him from Petco around the corner from my apartment. I normally don't support pet shop sales, especially after the video PETA surfaced about Reptiles by Mack that PetSmart involves themselves with. I just saw the little guy and felt absolutely terrible for him. He is my first Tortoise, as I usually have head other desert species like Beardies and leopard geckos. I've had a few aquatic turtles as well. So far he's been very healthy but I am taking him to the vet (in May) I take my dog to, who also specializes in exotics and birds just to make sure everything is ok. I started him out in a 40 gallon glass aquarium, but after research through these forums and others I found it was unsuitable since they couldn't tell where the glass was and would run into the panes. I decided to buy the tortoise house for Zoomed and am working to buy a second one to enlarge his habitat. He doesn't like any vegetable mixture but absolutely loves kale, but I mix it with collard greens, red dandelion, and swiss chard for variety. I add a couple pellets of Zoomed Tortoise Grassland formula for additional fiber and dust his food on Wednesdays and Saturdays with Rep-Cal calcium supplement. I decided to go with a substrate mixture of coir and play sand (70/30 or 60/40)to mimic what he live on in the wild. Yes, I understand the risks and how most people feel about any sand and the thought of impaction but I also feed from a dish and have some fist rocks around his food dish. I bought a couple of the potting plant bases to use as a water and food dishes. I recently placed a tortoise block in good enclosure in case he wants to file that break down. He burrows under his log hide at night and basks under his light most of the day. The humidity stays around 40-50% during the day and slightly increases to 60% at night. Ive been using the Zilla Slim Line Tropical T8 for UVB. I thought of the Powersun bulb but I've heard so many negative reviews. Once I buy the other addition to the enclosure, my goal is to add a ramp so he can climb a little, and some additional hides. My grandfather is currently building a couple custom stands for the enclosures before I buy the second house.

All has been well with Stoli so far. I love the little guy. He's definitely different than any other reptile I've owned before. If you guys have any suggestions on new hides, climbs, food, lighting etc.. Please feel free to reply, I'm very open to getting his care as perfect as I can. So, nice to meet you all!

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TechnoCheese

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Welcome! Please give these a read and come back with questions-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Beginner Mistakes
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/
Zoo med tortoise houses are not at all suitable for tortoises. They mold, so you cannot keep any moisture in the substrate, and are much too small to hold any adult species.
Your tortoise needs a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet, because in the wild, they roam miles in days in search for food. They also need to roam to get their digestive system going, kinda like a horse. You can achieve this sized enclosure by building a tortoise table.
Sand should never be used in any amount, because 1) it causes impactions, and putting the food in the bowl will do nothing to stop that because tortoises will drag the food out of it, and often eat their substrate, and 2) it is a skin, eye, and nose irritant for them.
Acceptable substrates include-
Fine grade orchid bark
Cypress mulch
Coco coir
Peat moss.
Be careful with the vet visit, and make sure your vet doesn’t give any vitamin injections.
Thank you for rescuing your tort!
 

RosemaryDW

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Welcome!

I don’t have an indoor enclosure so will leave it to others to discuss lighting. You already know he needs a larger home; I would focus on fixing that before anything else, personally. If you can still return the ZooMed house, I would. (Sorry! I know you got what you thought was best.)

When you say “vegetable mixture” do you mean individual vegetables (like carrots or bell peppers?) or just mixed greens? Hopefully just mixed greens! Right now I think your mixture is a little high in brassicas (the collards, kale, and Swiss chard are all brassicas). These are good foods and Russians eat quite a few brassicas in the wild but perhaps not quite that many. I’d add some more chicories, such as escarole, frisee, radicchio, endives. The dandelion you are giving is also a chicory. He’ll get better with different foods over time.

Cockseyville is small but the interwebz tell me it’s ethnically diverse. :). If you can get to a Latin market on occasion they will have cactus, labeled nopales. It’s a great tortoise food. Asian markets are also likely to have some different foods for your tortoise, if you know what to look for.
 

xBapes

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Though I appreciate your opinions on a lot I have to disagree with the house I have for him. It is for now at least 3 feet long, 2 feet deep, and 12 inches tall which is perfect for his size now. When he gets bigger I'm buying another to attach to the other side which will increase it to 6 feet in length. Also, I line the bottom of the box with organic bags so that it doesn't really touch the wood. Since I've had it, even with the misting and other things it has not molded. Also, the substrate is actually perfext for him. He doesn't go around eating shovels of dirt and sand. I wouldn't use Cypress or any of of that because the wood can mold over time as well, as i know those who have used it. Any substrate you risk impaction. If he ate Cypress, coir, or orchid bark by mistake...impaction. I understand where you are coming from don't get me wrong but I wouldn't have made the mixture if I didn't trust a very very reliable source in which I contacted. Thank you for your input and very nice to meet you.
 

xBapes

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Welcome!

I don’t have an indoor enclosure so will leave it to others to discuss lighting. You already know he needs a larger home; I would focus on fixing that before anything else, personally. If you can still return the ZooMed house, I would. (Sorry! I know you got what you thought was best.)

When you say “vegetable mixture” do you mean individual vegetables (like carrots or bell peppers?) or just mixed greens? Hopefully just mixed greens! Right now I think your mixture is a little high in brassicas (the collards, kale, and Swiss chard are all brassicas). These are good foods and Russians eat quite a few brassicas in the wild but perhaps not quite that many. I’d add some more chicories, such as escarole, frisee, radicchio, endives. The dandelion you are giving is also a chicory. He’ll get better with different foods over time.

Cockseyville is small but the interwebz tell me it’s ethnically diverse. :). If you can get to a Latin market on occasion they will have cactus, labeled nopales. It’s a great tortoise food. Asian markets are also likely to have some different foods for your tortoise, if you know what to look for.

Yeah I'm experiment with different greens at the moment, finding out what he likes and dislikes. I've been looking for endive and escarole and can't seem to find any so I'm working with what I can find at the moment. Also, yes he's not a big fan of any veggies like bell peppers, mushrooms, etc...he seems to go more crazy for his green salad. I realize the enclosure isn't super big but he's not overly big right now as well. I love the tortoise house, which is why I'm buying a second to attach to it to increase the length to 6 feet so that he has extra room to walk around. I was more focused on getting him outta the slaughter house which is Petco ...
 

TechnoCheese

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Though I appreciate your opinions on a lot I have to disagree with the house I have for him. It is for now at least 3 feet long, 2 feet deep, and 12 inches tall which is perfect for his size now. When he gets bigger I'm buying another to attach to the other side which will increase it to 6 feet in length. Also, I line the bottom of the box with organic bags so that it doesn't really touch the wood. Since I've had it, even with the misting and other things it has not molded. Also, the substrate is actually perfext for him. He doesn't go around eating shovels of dirt and sand. I wouldn't use Cypress or any of of that because the wood can mold over time as well, as i know those who have used it. Any substrate you risk impaction. If he ate Cypress, coir, or orchid bark by mistake...impaction. I understand where you are coming from don't get me wrong but I wouldn't have made the mixture if I didn't trust a very very reliable source in which I contacted. Thank you for your input and very nice to meet you.

Your tortoise is already an adult, and is not going to get much bigger. Sadly, petco and petsmart tortoises are exclusively wild caught, and 5 years old +. What you need to understand, is that this is a species that spends its life roaming miles and miles in search of food, and need very large enclosures. Take it from your tortoise’s perspective- would you be able to live happily in an enclosure the size of your bedroom? Tortoises need so, so much room to thrive and be happy.
You can choose to keep the sand, but my point still stands about the impaction risk and especially the irritation part. We very commonly see tortoises with puffy eyes from being kept on sandy and sand like substrates. None of us want your tort to become another example.
The sad thing about the internet nowadays, is that most of the information is wrong. Breeders and even just regular keepers of tortoises have been keeping tortoises wrong for decades, and new information has just recently surfaced about the proper care. For example, people thinking that your tortoise is a desert animal, and keeping it very dry as a hatchling. Russian tortoises come from forests, not even close to deserts.
 

xBapes

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Like I said I appreciate your opinion, and not once have I said I listened to any sources saying they are a desert species. I treat them as a mixture of both. I'm sure there aren't plenty of forests in Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Kazakhstan, or Pakistan. Russia maybe, but I look at them more as a Grassland species. Rest assure, he's taken out and gets plenty of exercise. Please don't act like I'm completely incompetent or mistreating my tortoise.

Thank you
 

TechnoCheese

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Like I said I appreciate your opinion, and not once have I said I listened to any sources saying they are a desert species. I treat them as a mixture of both. I'm sure there aren't plenty of forests in Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Kazakhstan, or Pakistan. Russia maybe, but I look at them more as a Grassland species. Rest assure, he's taken out and gets plenty of exercise. Please don't act like I'm completely incompetent or mistreating my tortoise.

Thank you

I don’t think you are incompetent or mistreating your tortoise. I am simply trying to help you not make the mistakes that many before have made. I am sure that you did plenty of research, and that you definitely mean the best for your tortoise, but these are things that cannot be ignored. (Also, be sure that “exercise” means outside, and not roaming your house ;))
 

xBapes

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I don’t think you are incompetent or mistreating your tortoise. I am simply trying to help you not make the mistakes that many before have made. I am sure that you did plenty of research, and that you definitely mean the best for your tortoise, but these are things that cannot be ignored. (Also, be sure that “exercise” means outside, and not roaming your house ;))

Well I live in Maryland and it's extremely cold right now, so until the weather improves.. He has to walk around my apartment for now. But I let him walk around the areas that are not carpeted which is pretty much my whole apartment minus the bedroom.
 

TechnoCheese

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Well I live in Maryland and it's extremely cold right now, so until the weather improves.. He has to walk around my apartment for now. But I let him walk around the areas that are not carpeted which is pretty much my whole apartment minus the bedroom.

Don’t let him roam.
We see incident after incident. “Help, I stepped on my tortoise’s leg!” “Help, kicked baby sulcata!” In every accident we see, it starts with “I was watching him super closely, but I turned my head for_____ seconds, and ____ happened!” From the two years I’ve been on this forum, which is nothing compared to others, I’ve seen-
Tortoises getting stepped on, crushed by doors, eating something on the floor, dog attack, getting lost, too cold, cracked shell, stuck under couch, and a few more that I can’t remember. In every situation, the person was being careful, they said their floors were clean, their room is warm, etc,etc,etc. Not only do things like these happen, but the tortoise learns that there is a bigger world outside their enclosure, and they will stop at nothing to get to it. This comes with the side effects you see with having a too small enclosure: constantly pacing the walls, and trying to climb out. Your tortoise needs a large, warm enclosure that it can be kept in at all times.
 

xBapes

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Like I said before I'm not stupid and I constantly supervise his movements. I wouldn't let my child outta my sight yet alone my tortoise... Which is my child at this point
 

xBapes

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So if your not calling me stupid, then the comment if "that's what they all said" is not necessary. Look I get it, you are doing what you think is right and what works best for you and your tortoises but I am doing the best for what I can do at this time. He appears very happy, healthy, and intelligent. He is getting his exercise, a good diet, and a far better home than Petco aka the slaughter house.
 

Bambam1989

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Like I said before I'm not stupid and I constantly supervise his movements. I wouldn't let my child outta my sight yet alone my tortoise... Which is my child at this point
The only thing we can do is point out the hazards. @TechnoCheese wants to make sure you are AWARE of the facts we have learned on this forum but it is your choice on whether or not to listen. Perhaps you will be lucky and no harm will befall your tort.
 

xBapes

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I completely understand that but, we can't assume the care taker is not ensuring the safety of the animal. Their is no hazard to point out unless I said, I leave the area and let my tortoise do what he wants...that's all I'm saying...but thank you for being concerned it is appreciated
 

Jay Bagley

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So if your not calling me stupid, then the comment if "that's what they all said" is not necessary. Look I get it, you are doing what you think is right and what works best for you and your tortoises but I am doing the best for what I can do at this time. He appears very happy, healthy, and intelligent. He is getting his exercise, a good diet, and a far better home than Petco aka the slaughter house.
Hello and welcome to the forum. That's a very nice looking tortoise you have. I don't think anybody was trying to call you stupid, more or less pointing out the perils of having a tortoise on the floor. There was a post on here not too long ago I believe the title was "help I stepped on my tortoises leg". This person to also watched their tortoise like a hawk but when they're on the ground there's just too much that can happen. I believe you truly want the best for your tortoise, and you came to the right place.
 

Maro2Bear

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Greetings, welcome to the Forum. Spring is right around the corner....and 70 degree temps forecast for our area next week. Soon you will have Stoli running around outside enjoying Md heat, sun and humidity.

Good luck!
 
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