New tortoise foster parent

Status
Not open for further replies.

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
Hi

I have just taken on two young Hermanns (born July 09) as their 10 year old owner and family are living abroad for a year or two and did not want to give them away.

I have spoken to my local vet and described their living conditions and diet and they think that young Matthew did a grand job.

They are currently in a large indoor pen with a light which is currently on for 12 hours a day. They are eating lettuce, dandilions, grass with occasional slices of tomato and courgette. We intend building a secure outdoor pen and will start to put them outdoors as the weather warms up. We have lime flour to sprinkle on food and vitamin drops for their water, cuttlefish bones for them to chomp on and they have a bath a couple of times a week.

They have been with us for a fortnight and I have become very fond of them already and can see that they are real characters. I am sure as time goes on I will become less anxious but it is a real responsibility looking after a child's pets! I have found the smaller tortoise on his back under the light twice now which I understand can be lethal. I have put stones round and about and uprighted him/her each time whereupon it has wandered over to chomp on some tasty morsel, I assume this means no harm as been done but I am worried in case this should happen when I am out - any advice welcomed
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello and welcome. Sometimes little ones will topple themselves over in a new area. They will probably stop this very soon.

Sounds like you are doing a great job.

I'd only say to skip the tomatoes (and most other vegetables) and use more leafy greens, instead of "lettuce". When the weather permits, grazing on weeds and grass is the best diet for them. Spring Mix is good to get you through the winter. In the UK, I believe its called "Rocket" salad.
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
Tom said:
Hello and welcome. Sometimes little ones will topple themselves over in a new area. They will probably stop this very soon.

Sounds like you are doing a great job.

I'd only say to skip the tomatoes (and most other vegetables) and use more leafy greens, instead of "lettuce". When the weather permits, grazing on weeds and grass is the best diet for them. Spring Mix is good to get you through the winter. In the UK, I believe its called "Rocket" salad.

Thanks for the welcome and advice. I was wondering if maybe the larger one had knocked him over. The larger one does march around and will climb over the smaller one. I grew some mustard seeds in a shallow dish, put it in the run and they were all over it in minutes, took about an hour to decimate the tray! I have trays growing on the window sills and spider plants in pots growing. I will avoid tomatoes as you suggest. They seem healthy and lively and eating so I am assuming we are doing ok.

coreyc said:
Welocme to the forum:D

Cheers!
 

Jacqui

Wanna be raiser of Lemon Drop tortoises
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
39,941
Location (City and/or State)
A Land Far Away...
Sounds like your already a fantastic foster parent! Just giving you an early warning, by the time they get back, your going to be looking to get a couple all your own. Isn't it amazing how quickly they can clean up what took you weeks to grow? :D
 

Isa

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
7,095
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal, QC, Canada
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
Jacqui said:
Sounds like your already a fantastic foster parent! Just giving you an early warning, by the time they get back, your going to be looking to get a couple all your own. Isn't it amazing how quickly they can clean up what took you weeks to grow? :D

You are so right, I just keep reminding myself of young Matthews teary face as he put them in my car! I am sure I will end up with my own, I am really enjoying them, I work from home and they are sharing my office so I get lots of time to watch them. I was staggered by how quickly they eat. I am nervous about over feeding them and keeping them healthy but I expect I will get more confident as time goes on :)

Isa said:
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!

I don't know about fighting, but as I mentioned the bigger one will clamber over the smaller one to get past and I saw him nibbling the little one's foot the other day. They are asleep now lying side by side. At what point would I consider fighting to be a problem? I don't want to separate them if I don't want to separate them if I don't need to. Should I be concerned about finding the little one on it's back under the lamp? Really scared me both times.

I know this is a stupid question, but the books and articles I have read don't say ..... what age is a tortoise considered an adult?
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi Marisa:

Welcome to the forum!! Are you in the U.K.?
 

Isa

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
7,095
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal, QC, Canada
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!

I don't know about fighting, but as I mentioned the bigger one will clamber over the smaller one to get past and I saw him nibbling the little one's foot the other day. They are asleep now lying side by side. At what point would I consider fighting to be a problem? I don't want to separate them if I don't want to separate them if I don't need to. Should I be concerned about finding the little one on it's back under the lamp? Really scared me both times.

I know this is a stupid question, but the books and articles I have read don't say ..... what age is a tortoise considered an adult?

I have 2 Hermanns, one is older and the other one is 8 months old. They live in 2 separate enclosure. When I tried to introduce the smaller one to my older one. My older one started running after the smaller one and tried to bite his legs. Does he do that often? When they eat, do you see the bigger one trying to push and eat the smaller one's food?
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
Isa said:
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!

I don't know about fighting, but as I mentioned the bigger one will clamber over the smaller one to get past and I saw him nibbling the little one's foot the other day. They are asleep now lying side by side. At what point would I consider fighting to be a problem? I don't want to separate them if I don't want to separate them if I don't need to. Should I be concerned about finding the little one on it's back under the lamp? Really scared me both times.

I know this is a stupid question, but the books and articles I have read don't say ..... what age is a tortoise considered an adult?

I have 2 Hermanns, one is older and the other one is 8 months old. They live in 2 separate enclosure. When I tried to introduce the smaller one to my older one. My older one started running after the smaller one and tried to bite his legs. Does he do that often? When they eat, do you see the bigger one trying to push and eat the smaller one's food?

They have always lived together. They seem to be getting more lively in the last few days, maybe because they have settled in and it is getting lighter and warmer. They are chasing each other around the perimiter of the pen at the moment and climbing over the top of each other which is how I think the little one may have ended up on his back. I have only seen the bigger one try to nibble the little one's leg once so far. I should point out that they are living in my home office at the moment which is why I get to spend so much time with them. I also think they had a more restricted diet previously because the owners did not have a garden, I have been putting in dandilions and today put some honeysuckle in which they seemed to really enjoy, maybe the change is diet is making them more lively? There doesn't seem to be a problem around food. Breaking news - the little one just wedged himself under the larger one and knocked him onto his back, so I think we have the answer to that mystery! Is that classed as fighting?

emysemys said:
Hi Marisa:

Welcome to the forum!! Are you in the U.K.?

Hi Yvonne, yes I am in the UK, in Hampshire

ALDABRAMAN said:

Thanks! I have had a really warm welcome and great advice already

pdrobber said:

Thanks, this is a great place to learn more about my foster tortoises
 

Isa

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
7,095
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal, QC, Canada
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!

I don't know about fighting, but as I mentioned the bigger one will clamber over the smaller one to get past and I saw him nibbling the little one's foot the other day. They are asleep now lying side by side. At what point would I consider fighting to be a problem? I don't want to separate them if I don't want to separate them if I don't need to. Should I be concerned about finding the little one on it's back under the lamp? Really scared me both times.

I know this is a stupid question, but the books and articles I have read don't say ..... what age is a tortoise considered an adult?

I have 2 Hermanns, one is older and the other one is 8 months old. They live in 2 separate enclosure. When I tried to introduce the smaller one to my older one. My older one started running after the smaller one and tried to bite his legs. Does he do that often? When they eat, do you see the bigger one trying to push and eat the smaller one's food?

They have always lived together. They seem to be getting more lively in the last few days, maybe because they have settled in and it is getting lighter and warmer. They are chasing each other around the perimiter of the pen at the moment and climbing over the top of each other which is how I think the little one may have ended up on his back. I have only seen the bigger one try to nibble the little one's leg once so far. I should point out that they are living in my home office at the moment which is why I get to spend so much time with them. I also think they had a more restricted diet previously because the owners did not have a garden, I have been putting in dandilions and today put some honeysuckle in which they seemed to really enjoy, maybe the change is diet is making them more lively? There doesn't seem to be a problem around food. Breaking news - the little one just wedged himself under the larger one and knocked him onto his back, so I think we have the answer to that mystery! Is that classed as fighting?




I think that you are a very nice foster mom :) Matthew an the 2 tortoises are very lucky :D

Hmm I would say yes, they are fighting. For the "separate them or not" I would say yes, but there are people here who have more than one tortoise who lives together, I would love to hear what they think? :).

Do you feed only dandelions and honeysuckle?
Here is a recent thread about a Hermann diet and vitamins...
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Diet--23871#axzz1FHYL9xfS

Hope it helps :)
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
Isa said:
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Marisa said:
Isa said:
Welcome to the forum :D. Have you seen them fight since you have them, If yes, well maybe you will have to separate them and put them in 2 different enclosure. I agee with Jacqui :D tortoises are so addictive!

I don't know about fighting, but as I mentioned the bigger one will clamber over the smaller one to get past and I saw him nibbling the little one's foot the other day. They are asleep now lying side by side. At what point would I consider fighting to be a problem? I don't want to separate them if I don't want to separate them if I don't need to. Should I be concerned about finding the little one on it's back under the lamp? Really scared me both times.

I know this is a stupid question, but the books and articles I have read don't say ..... what age is a tortoise considered an adult?

I have 2 Hermanns, one is older and the other one is 8 months old. They live in 2 separate enclosure. When I tried to introduce the smaller one to my older one. My older one started running after the smaller one and tried to bite his legs. Does he do that often? When they eat, do you see the bigger one trying to push and eat the smaller one's food?

They have always lived together. They seem to be getting more lively in the last few days, maybe because they have settled in and it is getting lighter and warmer. They are chasing each other around the perimiter of the pen at the moment and climbing over the top of each other which is how I think the little one may have ended up on his back. I have only seen the bigger one try to nibble the little one's leg once so far. I should point out that they are living in my home office at the moment which is why I get to spend so much time with them. I also think they had a more restricted diet previously because the owners did not have a garden, I have been putting in dandilions and today put some honeysuckle in which they seemed to really enjoy, maybe the change is diet is making them more lively? There doesn't seem to be a problem around food. Breaking news - the little one just wedged himself under the larger one and knocked him onto his back, so I think we have the answer to that mystery! Is that classed as fighting?




I think that you are a very nice foster mom :) Matthew an the 2 tortoises are very lucky :D

Hmm I would say yes, they are fighting. For the "separate them or not" I would say yes, but there are people here who have more than one tortoise who lives together, I would love to hear what they think? :).

Do you feed only dandelions and honeysuckle?
Here is a recent thread about a Hermann diet and vitamins...
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Diet--23871#axzz1FHYL9xfS

Hope it helps :)



:) Thanks! I will do my best for them and keep them safe for matthew when he returns. He told me that he and his dad used to take the tortoises out to the park in the summer.

Thanks for the info on diet I will read through it a bit later when I have done some work. They came with romaine lettuce which I have continued to give them in moderation, they have had bits of courgette (zuccini to you I think), grass, dandelions, a couple of bits of tomato (which I have since learned here was not a good idea), a spider plant or two, also have grown mustard seeds which they chomped through in minutes!

The container that was being used to bathe them in was a bit cramped and seemed to be stressful - I tried a larger container but they could get out of that - and did whilst laughing at me I think! Problem solved, rinsed out the bath and put them in there which they seem to enjoy.

I would be really interested to hear what others think regarding the separation or otherwise.

Cheers for the further advice - much appreciated :)
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi Marisa:

Sometimes YOU can't see the bullying. I know this sounds strange, but it might be all mental between the two of them. A more dominant tortoise will "tell" the more submissive tortoise to get out of his territory. But in a container, the submissive tortoise has nowhere to go and can't comply. You end up with one that doesn't eat and hides all the time.

If you don't want to separate them, then be sure to feed them at opposite ends of the habitat and make sure the smaller one has plenty of hiding places.

Take some time to just sit and watch them. After sitting quietly for some time, you might see if the bigger one is bullying the smaller one. Really, only you will be able to see that. We can only offer our opinions.

Good luck with your new charges. And keep us informed.
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
emysemys said:
Hi Marisa:

Sometimes YOU can't see the bullying. I know this sounds strange, but it might be all mental between the two of them. A more dominant tortoise will "tell" the more submissive tortoise to get out of his territory. But in a container, the submissive tortoise has nowhere to go and can't comply. You end up with one that doesn't eat and hides all the time.

If you don't want to separate them, then be sure to feed them at opposite ends of the habitat and make sure the smaller one has plenty of hiding places.

Take some time to just sit and watch them. After sitting quietly for some time, you might see if the bigger on is bullying the smaller one. Really, only you will be able to see that. We can only offer our opinions.

Good luck with your new charges. And keep us informed.

Thank you so much for advice. There doesn't seem to be any problem with feeding they munch along together and separately, and spend time basking together under the lamp and sleep together at night. They have been less boisterous today. I have noticed that the bigger one (kui kui) is clambering over the stones and wood in the pen more today and has spent less time running circuits around the pen. To be fair the smaller one (Schneepy, these are the names they came with) did knock over kui kui yesterday. It is a dull day here today so they have not had the additional sunlight coming in so maybe that is why they are quieter, they certainly saw off the greens I gave them this morning. I will keep an eye on them and see how they go. We intend building a bigger pen for them outdoors to spend time in when the weather warms up here - this is the UK so we could wait a while!!! I think a bigger pen with a more varied landscape should do the trick, if not I will separate them. I guess I thought that as they have been together from birth they should be ok.

There does still seem to be a lot for me to learn and everyone here has been so helpful and I am beginning to feel a bit less daunted by it all.

I pick them up each day and check them out and they still seem to look healthy and lively, with clear eyes and shiny looking shells. I am bathing them every few days in the bath, is this the right frequency? The pen is filled with a mixture of soil and playsand with a layer of hay on the top, do I need to keep this moist or is it better dry? There is a box with some hay in it which they sometimes sleep in, I saw a picture of a pen with woodshavings piled up at one end for burrowing in, is this a good idea?

I bet you are sorry you replied now with all these questions :)

Thank you again for taking time to share your knowledge!
 

jeffbens0n

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
881
Location (City and/or State)
Glenmoore, PA
When you say bathing them ever few days do you mean just putting them in some warm water to soak? If so yes thats fine, but if you are actually "bathing" them, or scrubbing them everyday, then I would not recommend that.
 

Marisa

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
7
jeffbens0n said:
When you say bathing them ever few days do you mean just putting them in some warm water to soak? If so yes thats fine, but if you are actually "bathing" them, or scrubbing them everyday, then I would not recommend that.

I do just put them into a bath to soak, I found that the container that I was given was too small and they constantly tried to get out, so now I rinse the bath out well, put tepid water in and pop them in together, they sit still for a while, put their heads in and out, wander around for a bit, empty their innards and then I put them back in their pen after 10 mins or so. Then, very carefully rinse and clean the bath out to make sure there are no germs or bacteria left behind.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Actually, soaking them in the bath tub is a great idea. There's plenty of room for them to wander around, so they get exercise while they're soaking up some water. Sometimes if you have a tortoise that seems constipated it helps to put them in the bath tub. Warm water and lots of walking hardly ever fails to make them poop.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Marisa said:
I pick them up each day and check them out and they still seem to look healthy and lively, with clear eyes and shiny looking shells. I am bathing them every few days in the bath, is this the right frequency? The pen is filled with a mixture of soil and playsand with a layer of hay on the top, do I need to keep this moist or is it better dry? There is a box with some hay in it which they sometimes sleep in, I saw a picture of a pen with woodshavings piled up at one end for burrowing in, is this a good idea?

All these current questions are a bit of a "can O' worms". Each of these things is very much a matter of opinion. Different people like to do things differently, and each can be successful at it.

I like to soak them more frequently than that, but other people soak them less than that and still have good results. I would never use sand as a substrate. It is a very real impaction risk and it can be irritating to their eyes and skin. However, as you've seen, many people use it and don't have a problem. Likewise with the hay on the substrate. Any moisture could make this mold, so I wouldn't do it. I keep my substrates damp for all my species, but it is VERY dry here with very low humidity all year. I don't know what its like in the UK for that sort of thing.

Your outdoor pen idea sounds great. Given what I've heard so far, I would separate these two. Sometimes they get a long and sometimes they don't. Pairs are about the hardest combo for this. Generally in bigger groups there is less likely hood of any one of them picking on any other, but when its just the two of them, frequently one will bully the other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top