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Newbie here

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by ariesxiao, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    Hi, I am new here from Seattle, Washington state. I have two tortoise in my home. One is Sulcate which is about 7.5 cms currently. I bought it from a breeder in Las Vegas at the end of May 2018 at about 5.5 cms. The breeder said it was hatched in mid-April 2018. The other one is a Russian Tortoise bought from Petco which is about 9.5cms when I got it in late July 2018. The petco employee said it was 1 year and 2 months at that time but I don't believe so thought. I don't think a Russian tortoise will grow to 9.5cm in 1 year and 2 months so its age is still unknown. I guess maybe more than 3 years old. I plan to get a Leopard tortoise maybe next year from a breeder. Also radiated tortoise if any available in Washington state.
  2. ZEROPILOT

    ZEROPILOT Well-Known Member TFO Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Welcome.
    You have your tortoises separated, correct?
    Not only will they fight. They also need totally different care.
  3. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum!
    Your Russian tortoise is wild caught an likely 5-15+ years old.

    Could we see pictures of your torts?

    I’m assuming they’re in separate enclosures?
  4. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    They are separated most of time. But I put them together for about 1 hour every day. I feel they should know each other and see some similar animals in their daily life otherwise their life will be very boring. But I watch very closely when they are together. When they are going to fight with each other, I will separate them.
  5. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    Yes. The one who is eating the leaves is the Russian Tortoise. The other one is the Sulcata but it is 140g now.

    Attached Files:

  6. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    They should never be together, ever. Not only is it extremely stressful for both, but they can give each other diseases since they come from different parts of the world and the Russian is wild caught.
    It doesn’t make their day better in the slightest, and is extremely dangerous. They’re solitary animals that do not need interaction.

    In fact, you should be washing your hands after even touching one before you touch the other. They should never, ever, ever be anywhere near each other.
  7. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    Those water bowls are huge flipping hazards, and it should be switched to something like a large terra cotta saucer.

    How big is your enclosure for your Russian? Please keep in mind that Russians need a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet.

    Please give these a read-
    Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

    Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

    What is the humidity in your Sulcata enclosure? It might just be the picture, but it looks like he’s pyramiding.

    Could we see pictures of both of their enclosures?

    Please give these a read-
    How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0 https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...ealthy-Sulcata-Or-Leopard,-Version-2.0.79895/

    For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata... https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/For-Those-Who-Have-a-Young-Sulcata....76744/

    Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/
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  8. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    The container to hold that Russian should be 40 inches * 27 inches. That's the biggest container I can find which can fit our room rest space and can keep the heat for two ceramic lights.

    Sulcata humidity is between 40-80 depending on how much spray frog of the humidifier goes into the container at that time.I don't think it is pyramiding. Maybe a little but at least not too bad. I let it eat leaves and torotise food with high fiber, low protein and low oxalic acid such as Zoomed tortoise food and escarole greens, chicory endive, turnlip greens, romaine lettuce, dandalion greens and sweet potatoes leaves.

    Attached Files:

  9. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    Definitely start working on a 4x8 Tortoise table for the Russian. We can help you build one, if you can’t figure out how :)

    Sounds like you might have an open topped enclosure for your tortoise. It’s impossible to hold the 80-100% humidity you need without a closed chamber. Is there any way to limit ventilation and completely cover the top of the enclosure?
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  10. T Smart

    T Smart Active Member 5 Year Member

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    @TechnoCheese

    Any chance you have plans / blueprints for an 8' x 4' table? Can't have my little guy outside for much longer, and his indoor enclosure is starting to get small.
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  11. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    The container to hold that Russian should be 40 inches * 27 inches. That's the biggest container I can find which can fit our room rest space and can keep the heat for two ceramic lights.

    Sulcata humidity is between 40-80 depending on how much spray frog of the humidifier goes into the container at that time.I don't think it is pyramiding. Maybe a little but at least not too bad. I let it eat leaves and torotise food with high fiber, low protein and low oxalic acid such as Zoomed tortoise food and escarole greens, chicory endive, turnlip greens, romaine lettuce, dandalion greens and sweet potatoes leaves.

    I heard from some other tortoise expert that we cannot cover the top of the container. If we cover the top of the container, it will make the container to be sultry/warm and humidy/moist which will make the tortoise to get a disease of Scabies. The expert even suggested me to use a fan to blow the air above the container to make the air to be circulated (He said it will be fine if the fan doesn't blow to the tortoise).

    Attached Files:

  12. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    I definitely wouldn’t listen to the “expert”. They are giving you old, outdated advice.

    Sulcata tortoises are born during monsoon season in the grasslands of Africa. 3 months out of the year when they hatch, it is rainy, humid, and wet. The 8 months when it’s dry out? They’re living in humid burrows, very deep underground. It is a mistake to keep them dry, and very dangerous.

    In addition, tortoises don’t need that much air, and having very little ventilation will not hurt them at all. Opening the enclosure a few times a day to soak, feed, spray etc. is enough air exchange.

    Is there any substrate in the sulcata’s enclosure?

    Please be sure to read those links.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  13. TechnoCheese

    TechnoCheese Well-Known Member

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    I kinda do, actually.

    This is how I made it in a 3D modeling program, but keep in mind that there are SO many ways to do it.
    I would basically just build a frame, and pin plywood to it. You can also add legs if you want.
    IMG_1111.jpg IMG_1112.jpg IMG_1109.jpg
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  14. Minority2

    Minority2 Active Member

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    A couple examples found in the forums. First link contains a google pdf:
    https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-4x8-turtle-tortoise-table-plans-and-pics.62727/
    https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-new-indoor-enclosure.163087/
    https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/indoor-pancake-and-elongated-enclosures.56872/

    The person that gave you the advice on humidity is no expert. Veterinarians, breeders for profit, and pet shop owners are not experts. They're reciting outdated information which has been proven to be unsafe for tortoises. While some tortoises are hardy enough to survive poor living conditions, many young tortoises die yearly due to the bad advice and care given from such people. If you want your tortoise to be healthy and active you'll want to pay attention to the advice given in tortoise forum.

    Please read the links provided by @TechnoCheese. Follow the advice in those threads will keep your tortoise from developing health complications that will result to expensive vet bills.

    1. Closed chamber enclosure setups are highly praised for it's ability to keep heat and humidity levels stable as well as keep electricity bills down.
    2. High humidity levels do not present any danger to tortoises as long as temperatures remain relatively high. Tortoise usually get respiratory infections from cold weather, not warm/hot. Damp substrate will not damage their shells.
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  15. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    substrate is zoomed coconut fiber substrate https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010OSIHW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 mixed with zoomed forest bedding https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010OVM7A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  16. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    He also suggested me to raise it in high temperature around 32c and high humidity. But he just suggested me still do the air circulation. Otherwise the tortoise will get the disease like the one in the attached pictures.

    Attached Files:

  17. Minority2

    Minority2 Active Member

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    Air circulation or lack of air circulating around an enclosure does not cause infections or diseases, temperature levels on the other hand, do. Again, confusing and most likely wrong advice. I hope this person didn't also encourage your decision to keep your two tortoises together.

    Bumps on a tortoise's skin can be the cause of many different reasons from substrate material, cleanliness, bacteria, to infections. An visit to an experienced exotics vet would be best option if an owner comes across such issues.
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  18. ZEROPILOT

    ZEROPILOT Well-Known Member TFO Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Boredom and loneliness are human emotions. And it's very common for new tortoise keepers to make this mistake.
    But tortoises are solitary animals. "Company" is stressful at best and at worst, can quickly escalate to violence.
    Also. Species mixing has it's own hazards.
    All mentioned above.
    Keep in kind that each animal will need it's own area. A very large one. Especially that Sulcata.
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  19. ariesxiao

    ariesxiao New Member

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    I called him today and understand his whole theory. The high temperature and high humidity itself doesn’t make the bumps in the tortoise skin. It is very good for tortoise growth but it is impossible to keep a sterile environment. The high temperature and high humidity will make bacteria to grow very fast even there is only small amount of bacteria at the beginning. Then the air and substrate will become unhealthy soon if we just make it a not open environment. Doing air circulation is a good way to prevent bacteria fast growth in the tortoise living container and keep them healthy. He said we should keep the temperature and humidity as good as we can in the tortoise conformtable zone but air circulation is also very important.
  20. jockma

    jockma Well-Known Member

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    Opening a closed enclosure once or twice a day to mist, replace water in the bowl, feed etc. will be enough air circulation.

    Bacteria will not be an issue as long as you spot clean poop and uneaten food. Change the substrate every few months or sooner and everything will be fine.
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