Noob pre-purchase questions: Leopard, Russian, or other?

[tort310]

Greetings TF family! My wife and I want to get our son a turtle for Christmas. I have been doing a bit of research and lurking a bit on TF, and today I decided to create an account in order to get the best use out of the forum. We live in Los Angeles and own to dogs.

-I want to get either a leopard, russian, or________. If I were to want to add a second tort a year or two later, would my tort welcome it? I know that Russians don't like company.

-I used to own a beardie years ago and the screw on UVB bulbs were frowned upon for beardies, but I see many ppl online using them. What do you think about those mercury vapor screw on bulbs? Sould I go with a t5/t8 UVB fixture?

-Can I keep my tort's enclosure indoors or will I eventually need to make an outdoor enclosure?

-What size enclosure would I need to have? I see a lot of huge setups on YT, that would not be feasible where I live. do they need a screen on top?

This youtube video shows a simple setup, but it looks a bit more of a temporary setup.

Glad to be part of the forum and Ilook forward to learning a look about these amazing reptiles.

 

[tort310]

Love the look of the leopard tort the best. I also hear that the turtle boxes aren't that great in keeping the heat/humidity in.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Welcome to the forum! These are great questions, and we’re glad you’re asking them.

Tortoises need very large enclosures, so keep that in mind. Russians require a minimum enclosure size of 8x4 feet and the only tortoises that can be kept in smaller aren’t as common in the pet trade, and a leopard will need an 8x4 foot closed chamber to live in before its big enough to live outside year round. As far as I know, leopards cannot(or should not)be kept indoors.

Tortoises are solitary animals that do best alone.

MVBs are generally not recommend for tortoises because they’re pretty desiccating on their shells. Tube fixtures work well for uvb, with flood lights being good for basking.

I would not take advice from YouTube. I fell down that rabbit hole when I was first researching for a Sulcata, and I had so much bad info that I had to throw away a year and a half of research when I first joined the forum.

Be sure to give these a read and come back with questions
How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0 https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...ealthy-Sulcata-Or-Leopard,-Version-2.0.79895/

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata... https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/For-Those-Who-Have-a-Young-Sulcata....76744/

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/


Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

 

[TechnoCheese]

Definitely don’t follow that video guide. The open enclosure, moss, and ramp bowls are extremely dangerous for young tortoises, and even more dangerous coming from tortoise town. Tortoise town is a breeder that sells countless sick and destined to fail tortoises, most dying within months of purchase. I’d recommend doing a search for them in the “vender reviews” part of the forum

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Hi and Welcome!

How old is your son? Has he expressed an interest in raising a tortoise? Does he realize they are a lifetime commitment? Many species will outlive their owners if given proper care. I don't want to dissuade you from giving a tort to him as a gift, but in my ever-so-humble opinion, pets make the absolute worst Christmas gifts on so many levels. You should be fully prepared to assume its care if/when your son loses interest.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, let's talk species:

Leopards can be a bit difficult for beginners IMHO. They need very specific environmental parameters especially when very young; not to mention the fact that they can grow rather large. That beautiful shell you mentioned can be EXTREMELY hard to maintain. They are very susceptible to "pyramiding".

Russians are a very good "beginner" tortoise. Friendly and relatively easy to care for. They are also not as expensive as most other species. They can grow upwards around 9 or 10 inches.

Sulcatas are also great torts, but they get massive (can reach 200+ lbs. depending on gender).

Red-foots are also a great tortoise for beginners. Friendly, full of personality, and have very beautiful shells. They can grow up to around 12 inches.

Those would be my top 3 picks for your son. Whatever species you choose, make sure you and your son take the time to research their care thoroughly. Equally important: Research the breeder you choose to purchase from. The better the breeder, the fewer problems you'll have raising it.

Hope this helps at least a little. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

First, I have a question for you: What part of Los Angeles do you live in? Different advice for Hermosa Beach vs. Valencia. Are you close to the coast, in the middle of the big city, or farther inland in a more desert area like me?

I'll try to hit your questions one at a time:

• Leopards, Russians, Hermanni, Greeks, pancakes, radiata, Burmese stars, and CA desert tortoises all do very well here in out milder climate.
• Mercury vapor bulbs are okay for some situations, but too desiccating for others. CFL type bulbs should never be used over tortoises or beardies. The best strategy varies, but a low wattage regular incandescent flood bulb couple with a long florescent UV tube works well. Add some night heat for tropical species if your house isn't 80 degrees all night.
• Done correctly, they can live indoors full time, but in our fantastic climate, I prefer to have a large indoor enclosure and an even larger outdoor enclosure to be used during nice weather. They can go outside on nice days, and come in every night, or stay in on rainy or cold days, or days when you don't have time to mess with it. Out door enclosures can be fairly cheap and easy to make. We can give you examples when the time comes.
• The size enclosure depends on the size of the tortoise. Generally speaking, tortoises need a lot of room to move.They need MUCH more space than a bearded dragon or snake would need. The smallest indoor enclosure you'd need for any species is about 4x8'. Locomotion is part of their digestive process and problems can ensue if they are kept in enclosure that are too small. Some species do well here when started mostly indoors as babies, and then moved to the correct outdoor enclosure when they are big enough. If you are short on space, then you should consider a different reptile pet. Blue tongue skinks are a fantastic one. Smaller space requirements, long lived, friendly, and very easy keepers. Screen tops will not hold in your heat and humidity. This is a problem for babies of all species, and adults of some species.

There is a tremendous amount of conflicting information out in the world. So much of it is wrong and will lead to death or sickness for a tortoise. Please ask lots of questions. Allow us to explain why we say one thing, while another site says something else. The explanation will help you make the right choices.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome!

No, your original tortoise will NOT well receive a new tortoise into his environment. Tortoises are solitary animals and prefer to be alone. They will fight to chase other tortoises out of their territory. It is very stressful, and stress causes illness.

 

[tort310]

@TechnoCheese @Mizcreant @Tom @Yvonne G Thanks for the tips! I live in Studio City, so it get pretty hot since I'm in the San Fernando Valley. I think that I am going to wait another year before I get my son a tortoise. I know that I'll be doing most of the work, but I want him to have some kind of responsibilities in regards to the tortoise. I can build him an enclosure outside enclosure, but I am afraid that it will get eaten. There's a lot of coyotes, and I've heard of occasianal bobcat sightings in the SFV. On top of our lawn would be the most ideal location for the enclosure, but I can already hear my wife yelling at me for destroying the grass blades.

 

[Tom]

@TechnoCheese @Mizcreant @Tom @Yvonne G Thanks for the tips! I live in Studio City, so it get pretty hot since I'm in the San Fernando Valley. I think that I am going to wait another year before I get my son a tortoise. I know that I'll be doing most of the work, but I want him to have some kind of responsibilities in regards to the tortoise. I can build him an enclosure outside enclosure, but I am afraid that it will get eaten. There's a lot of coyotes, and I've heard of occasianal bobcat sightings in the SFV. On top of our lawn would be the most ideal location for the enclosure, but I can already hear my wife yelling at me for destroying the grass blades.

There are many ways to make it safe outside. I don't think you need to worry too much about predators where you are. I'm in SCV to your north on the edge of the National Forest, and I hatch and raise dozens of babies each year up here with no predator problems. We are surrounded by coyotes, bobcats, ravens, raccoons, etc...

The more important thing to worry about is the lawn chemicals and pesticides that are typically used.

 

[tort310]

Even though these little critters are so adorable, I think we're gonna end up passing. @Tom mentions that they can be indoors if their enclosure is done right, but I'd rather do everything properly with an indoor and full-time outdoor enclosure. How long would a Russian/Leopard/Hermann/Sulcata last indoors before needing to be outdoors full time?. We are thinking of selling, so maybe in our next home.

I'm so glad that I created an account before buying a tortoise.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Even though these little critters are so adorable, I think we're gonna end up passing. @Tom mentions that they can be indoors if their enclosure is done right, but I'd rather do everything properly with an indoor and full-time outdoor enclosure. How long would a Russian/Leopard/Hermann/Sulcata last indoors before needing to be outdoors full time?. We are thinking of selling, so maybe in our next home.

I'm so glad that I created an account before buying a tortoise.

If you obtain an adult. They can live outdoors immediately.
Do you specifically want a hatchling?

 

[Tom]

Even though these little critters are so adorable, I think we're gonna end up passing. @Tom mentions that they can be indoors if their enclosure is done right, but I'd rather do everything properly with an indoor and full-time outdoor enclosure. How long would a Russian/Leopard/Hermann/Sulcata last indoors before needing to be outdoors full time?. We are thinking of selling, so maybe in our next home.

I'm so glad that I created an account before buying a tortoise.

Babies of the larger species are usually fine being kept mostly indoors for the first year or two. Smaller species can go at least 2 or 3 years, but they can stay indoors indefinitely with a large enclosure and the correct lighting and diet.

This is not an either or situation. You can do both. Indoors at night and during inclement weather, and outdoors during fair weather. The best of both worlds.