Not to happy with the local zoo.

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Missy

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I have lived in IL for 7 years now and only live 25 miles from a small 15 acre zoo but have never gone until today. Most of the zoo was nice and had great enclosures except for the tortoise enclosures. They had 2 large Sulcatas, I would guess at least 100 lbs. The food bowl had lots of grapes and apples and dry Mazuri. There was not much grass and lots of Creeping Charlie (toxic) There was no pool for them to soak and no shelter. They had dug a burrow, but I could see water in it. We have had lots of rain. I was surprised to see 2 Galapagos Tortoises. The only shade they had was a few feet that the building made. No trees at all. They did not have a pond either. I did not see what they were feeding them. There was also an Asian Brown tortoise in an enclosure with a bunch of some kind of small deer. It was up next to the fence. He had a huge underbite but other than that it looked ok. The only reptile enclosure that I liked was the box turtle pen, it was pretty cool. When we were leaving there was a survey that you could fill out, so I did. Now I can't stop thinking about those poor torts. I plan on going back this summer and see if anything has changed. Not what I expected to see at a zoo:(
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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That does sound like a pretty neglectful habitat. I would certainly expect more from a zoo. But are you sure creeping charlie is toxic to tortoises?
 

Edna

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I don't want to sound like I'm defending the zoo, because I'm not. Maybe they need some direct feedback from you? Anyway, when I had geese the pens always ended up with nothing but ground ivy (creeping Charlie) in them because that was the only thing they wouldn't eat. I wouldn't say I liked the ground ivy, but it was a vast improvement over bare ground.

The Tortoise Table says "Do not feed. Contains turpenoids and volitile oils that are known to irritate the liver and kidneys."

http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?catID=413
 

Madkins007

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Zoos are their own reality. Sadly, in many cases, things like tortoises get the 'leftovers' as far as diet, space, care, etc. goes. They are often stuck in odd spaces between other displays or in semi-temporary areas.

On the other hand, smaller zoos can also be very responsive to well-done feedback and offers of help. You can often locate and talk to the reptile curator to ask him or her about the care plan they are following and your concerns.

And sometimes they just don't seem to care. A small local zoo has a collection of some of the most pyramided Sulcata, Leopards, and Red-foots I have ever seen. I had hoped that they were donations, but have been told that they have been there a really long time. Various people and groups have approached them and little seems to change.
 

GBtortoises

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I agree with Mark. Almost every small zoo I've ever been to keeps their animals, especially their small animals, in conditions that less than average at best. I've seen extremely pyramided tortoises, tortoises kept on concrete with some sparse shavings and tortoises being fed as Mark accurately put it-"leftovers". Not just tortoises, but turtles in dirty water, lizards kept in filth and so on and so on. Unless it's a big money draw, i.e.-big cats or African plains animals, the rest of the inhabitants are second, or in some cases, third class residents. I'm not a fan of zoos in general simply because I don't think animals get the care or space they really need. But I've stopped going to small zoos altogether. I just get angry at what I see and leave mad!
 

Greg T

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You all bring up good points, especially with smaller zoos. Maybe you could go volunteer some of your expertise and ideas to them since there is a good chance they really don't know as much as they should. It might also be cool to help them by coordinating a fix up day where you get a few good hands to help out by building some hides or a soaking pool. A little effort and I bet you can find people willing to help and possibly businesses willing to donate some materials or plants too. :)
 

Missy

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Greg T said:
You all bring up good points, especially with smaller zoos. Maybe you could go volunteer some of your expertise and ideas to them since there is a good chance they really don't know as much as they should. It might also be cool to help them by coordinating a fix up day where you get a few good hands to help out by building some hides or a soaking pool. A little effort and I bet you can find people willing to help and possibly businesses willing to donate some materials or plants too. :)

Great minds think alike, LOL. I was thinking of volunteering at the zoo. Right now I just do not have time but maybe this fall. The zoo had an article in the paper about 2 weeks ago about wanting to raise money for a reptile house. Thats why I went to check it out. I would love to be a part of raising money for this and to help the torts they already have.
 

Nay

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Missy, Greg had a great idea, large companies love to get the PR by donating, so if you could coordinate asking the local hardware place and a newspaper article stating they are helping improve the zoo, you may do everyone a whole lotta good! In my little town we have a small newspaper that comes free every week. All those human interest stories are very appealing. So maybe if you kinda say a few locals are helping out the zoo and the paper gets involved, the store would get some free advertising,,,,the zoo does also, and the torts get a new pen!! Win WIn.. Good Luck.
Nay
 

zesty_17

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Being a zoo keeper, my advice to you is to contact the keepers that work directly with the animals you are concerned about. Use guest relations, email, or by telephone, most of us are very willing to talk to guests about animal concerns and explain why things are the way they are. Unfortunately, care in zoos varies extremely, he AZA (association of zoos & aquariums) is a good organization that helps regulate this. AZA's regulations are usually above & beyond the general state & federal policies for animal keeping, and passing the inspection to obtain & maintain accreditation is no easy feat. We were just reaccredited this year. It happens every 5 years, and not only is the zoo judged on predetermined and comparison basis with other facilities, but also based on the last accreditation for that facility-you always have to be improving! Find out if your zoo is a member, if they are, you can contact AZA and they will generally investigate the issue if it is an animal health or safety concern.
 

Missy

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zesty_17 said:
Being a zoo keeper, my advice to you is to contact the keepers that work directly with the animals you are concerned about. Use guest relations, email, or by telephone, most of us are very willing to talk to guests about animal concerns and explain why things are the way they are. Unfortunately, care in zoos varies extremely, he AZA (association of zoos & aquariums) is a good organization that helps regulate this. AZA's regulations are usually above & beyond the general state & federal policies for animal keeping, and passing the inspection to obtain & maintain accreditation is no easy feat. We were just reaccredited this year. It happens every 5 years, and not only is the zoo judged on predetermined and comparison basis with other facilities, but also based on the last accreditation for that facility-you always have to be improving! Find out if your zoo is a member, if they are, you can contact AZA and they will generally investigate the issue if it is an animal health or safety concern.

Thanks for all the great advise. I will try and contact the zoo keeper. I hope it goes well.
 

October

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I love seeing when people want to change things, Missy, good on you. :) I really like the volunteer/donation idea!

I don't know the exact setup, but maybe if you go down to talk to someone take a couple pounds of grazing seeds and show them how easy it is to make the torts healthier and more self-sustainable in just 30 minutes or what have you. Bring along a list of inexpensive ideas for getting their enclosure up to par too.

Also, like mentioned before, creeping charlie could be everywhere precisely because they're not eating it and it's fairly invasive. Might not be much that can be done about it, except something like a quarterlyish cleanout.
 

Missy

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October said:
I love seeing when people want to change things, Missy, good on you. :) I really like the volunteer/donation idea!

I don't know the exact setup, but maybe if you go down to talk to someone take a couple pounds of grazing seeds and show them how easy it is to make the torts healthier and more self-sustainable in just 30 minutes or what have you. Bring along a list of inexpensive ideas for getting their enclosure up to par too.

Also, like mentioned before, creeping charlie could be everywhere precisely because they're not eating it and it's fairly invasive. Might not be much that can be done about it, except something like a quarterlyish cleanout.

Good ideas. My torts will eat Creeping Charlie every chance they get. I try to keep them from it but they still sneak a bite now and then. Here is the Galaps trying to stay in the shade of the building.
 

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CJSTorts

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I have seen torts and small deers housed together before and it seemed to work well. They were from the same area and had more hides than animals and made for an educational and attention getting enclosure. As for the others, hopefully you can help the zoo and keepers come up with something better for them.

Zesty_17 I am in FL also, what zoo are you a keeper at?
 

Missy

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CJSTorts said:
I have seen torts and small deers housed together before and it seemed to work well. They were from the same area and had more hides than animals and made for an educational and attention getting enclosure. As for the others, hopefully you can help the zoo and keepers come up with something better for them.

Zesty_17 I am in FL also, what zoo are you a keeper at?

The problem that I see with it is that will the tortoise eat the deer poo like they eat dog poo? That can't be good.
 

zesty_17

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CJSTorts said:
I have seen torts and small deers housed together before and it seemed to work well. They were from the same area and had more hides than animals and made for an educational and attention getting enclosure. As for the others, hopefully you can help the zoo and keepers come up with something better for them.

Zesty_17 I am in FL also, what zoo are you a keeper at?

busch gardens
 

CJSTorts

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Missy said:
CJSTorts said:
I have seen torts and small deers housed together before and it seemed to work well. They were from the same area and had more hides than animals and made for an educational and attention getting enclosure. As for the others, hopefully you can help the zoo and keepers come up with something better for them.

Zesty_17 I am in FL also, what zoo are you a keeper at?

The problem that I see with it is that will the tortoise eat the deer poo like they eat dog poo? That can't be good.

I'm not sure if they would eat it or not. Though I have also seen leopards with hoovestock and cranes. It is pretty common to mix animals from the same locations. As long as it is animals the torts would encounter in their natural habitat and the enclosure is spotted cleaned daily I don't really see a problem with the mixing.

As for the others I completely agree with you, changes need to be made.
 

zesty_17

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Eating feces is a normal part of some tortoise consumption. Aldabras are notorious for consuming this as well as the carrion of other tortoises on their native islands. We, of course, discourage this behavior by trying to keep the habitat clean, but it does happen.
 

Missy

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Up date- I called the zoo a couple days ago. Still waiting for a return call.
 

Greg T

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Missy said:
Up date- I called the zoo a couple days ago. Still waiting for a return call.

I'm glad you are trying to help. I know you can make a great difference for those torts. :)
 
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