Off topic: Experts: Humid vs. Dry

[jaizei]

I want a list of experts please .

Just make sure you parrot the "right" person.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

From my perspective, it seems the only time "parroting" is called out in a negative light is when people point out Tom's links.
No one has ever come down on someone parroting Yvonne's baby soaks, not that they should..
I just can't recall an instance where people went all "anti parroting" on someone other than when sharing Tom's humid info.

Coincidence? Biased?....curious.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Like I said on the other post . I would like the names of the experts here . The school, phd or any other thing that makes anyone person an experts here . This is a bundle of information made by different keepers. What works for one may need to be tweaked to work for you . There is no one way layed out to follow . Take the information add a little common sense and run with it .

Hi Mike, I like many of your posts. To specifically answer this question about 'experts" I'd suggest that even with a PhD, you'd poke a hole in that POV,'cause they don't have real world experience. Or some other straw man argument. Jacqui once suggested there are no such thing as experts, and certainly not on TFO. I frankly think TFO has the largest collection of chelonian husbandry 'experts' in the world. If you really only define experts as people with PhD's then there are indeed experts by that criteria here on TFO. If people with PhD's and published, well TFO still has experts. If PhD, published, and at least ten ears experience then still, TFO has experts. What criteria would make you give a pass on someone being an expert? No one 'knows it all'. An interesting quote from a fiction writer comes from Robert Hienlein "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." So argument in its rational form is a great tool to learn with. Tit for tat Yes/No is an irrational way to argue.

So, what criteria will satisfy your interest to characterize someone as an expert, once and for all, and I'll 'out them' here on TFO.

 

[Yvonne G]

The rules the moderators go by:

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Far as I'm concerned, this thread has gone way past rule #1. If anyone has something they want to offer about the SUBJECT matter, please hurry and do so, because I'm going to close this thread by 5p this evening. I don't see any constructive value leaving it open.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I'm going to close this thread by 5p PST this evening. [/B]

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, I'm in PDt, Ken. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[jaizei]

Spot on. It appears the admin at the time (quoted in the very first post in this thread) seems to have a liking for Ascott that clearly biases his/her administrating duties.

This may be, literally, the funniest thing I have read on this forum. I can assure you that there is absolutely no favorable bias towards Angela.

 

[mike taylor]

Our friend Cowboy Ken is an expert at self-promotion. You should see his thread! Ken, can you link it for us?

Sadly this is a short and lonely list, as no one can match Ken's unique and hard earned title in this category.

You got that one right . To answer your other questions . To know who the so called experts are I think it would help . I know one thing if I need help with my Leopards or sulcatas I go to you or Kelly . Plus Ken helps me out also . So I would put you and Kelly down as experts no problem . Yvonne needs to be on the list also . I just really wanted to point out there really isn't a set expert here . So don't take it wrong I really am grateful you are here .

 

[Yvonne G]

If I've gleaned the info correctly, what is being opposed here in the thread is a person with no experience about that particular species of tortoise offering opinions on that species. This has been a bone of contention with me too. Trouble is, how do you know if that person has first hand experience? We are a family oriented forum and we want everyone to feel welcome and comfortable joining in and posting. So we have to be careful how we 'come down' on someone offering advice. My favorite thing to do is give a link to a care sheet here on the Forum, or a link to the Tortoise Library. These were all written by Forum members and have good information in them. So if a member I don't know gives advice I believe to be questionable, I will come back with the care sheet/library links. If the advice is downright wrong, and I know for sure it's wrong, I will respond by showing why I think it's wrong and then I'll give what I consider to be the correct info.

You don't have to be accusatory. You can correct a wrong post in a polite manner. This allows the new person to feel more comfortable with the correction, and we can educate rather than scare them away.

 

[jaizei]

From my perspective, it seems the only time "parroting" is called out in a negative light is when people point out Tom's links.
No one has ever come down on someone parroting Yvonne's baby soaks, not that they should..
I just can't recall an instance where people went all "anti parroting" on someone other than when sharing Tom's humid info.

Coincidence? Biased?....curious.

I make no distinction. I think parroting should be frowned upon. I don't understand why anyone would be proud of parroting. The term itself was meant to be an insult. Parrots mindlessly repeat things, without understanding. I prefer learning; where you actually process the information you take in and add it to your knowledge base. To be clear, you don't necessarily need firsthand experience, but you should have something of an understanding of what you are saying. And Yvonne is probably also considered one of the "right" people too.

What started all this? Someone that was deemed as having no experience giving advice. I see no difference between Angela giving advice here, and others with no firsthand experience giving advice elsewhere. But if that person elsewhere is part of the cool crowd, then they are not treated the way Angela has been. I won't link to examples because I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but I can recall numerous examples where someone who has never owned sulcatas repeated Tom's opinion/advice as their own and were lauded as giving good advice. So there is a double standard.

 

[mike taylor]

Hi Mike, I like many of your posts. To specifically answer this question about 'experts" I'd suggest that even with a PhD, you'd poke a hole in that POV,'cause they don't have real world experience. Or some other straw man argument. Jacqui once suggested there are no such thing as experts, and certainly not on TFO. I frankly think TFO has the largest collection of chelonian husbandry 'experts' in the world. If you really only define experts as people with PhD's then there are indeed experts by that criteria here on TFO. If people with PhD's and published, well TFO still has experts. If PhD, published, and at least ten ears experience then still, TFO has experts. What criteria would make you give a pass on someone being an expert? No one 'knows it all'. An interesting quote from a fiction writer comes from Robert Hienlein "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." So argument in its rational form is a great tool to learn with. Tit for tat Yes/No is an irrational way to argue.

So, what criteria will satisfy your interest to characterize someone as an expert, once and for all, and I'll 'out them' here on TFO.

Thanks for liking my post . You don't need a phd to be an expert . I was trying to get someone to say they are . Just to point there isn't any . Like you said this is the best place to learn . But to ask an expert nope . To ask for direction yes . People need to understand there's not one way . You can't just put them in a box with heat and walk away . You have to check try ,check try , ask, try check then one day its working . I like everybody here but Newt! Haha its a very helpful place for a starting point . But you have to tweak and try different stuff . Ok off my soap box .

 

[ascott]

I think some confusion may be caused when discussing adults versus babies. I would not keep a baby Russian on damp substrate below 80. But my Russian is an adult and is able to warm up every day. So I think especially for a new tortoise keeper, if it is not very clear the differences between adult and hatchling care then it can get very confusing very quickly. And I think that's why there is confusion as to what is said at times.

You are absolutely correct.....problem is when a blanket statement is made, then tortoise pay the price....THIS is and has been one of my biggest issues with the high humidity, closed chamber method, in addition to it is not a natural state for the tortoise to grow in...a tortoise does not live its life in this constant high humidity....in an outdoor space a tortoise can move from one micro climate to another with relative ease...in a closed chamber, there is not that choice...again, just one of my biggest issues with the "new" method of forced wet/hot/humid chambers....

 

[ascott]

Good morning. My practice, as you say, with you has been to try to...work...through...your CRYPTIC syntax and see if you have any information on offer. If so, I attempt to determine voracity, based on either evidence or reference, neither of which you provide. This is not a personal attack, this is a technical dismissal. Biology is not like open mike poetry night, where everybody's opinions are equally valid. You wish to engage in discussion or critique? Great! Then come to play. That means with evidence, reference, or at least logical reasoning (that's the hierarchy in descending order, by the way). Absent that, you're only providing personal musings at best, which are irrelevant, or bad advice, which is dangerous.

Hope I was able to provide some clarity. Have a great day

HEY!!!! You have a FANTASTIC day

 

[leigti]

You are absolutely correct.....problem is when a blanket statement is made, then tortoise pay the price....THIS is and has been one of my biggest issues with the high humidity, closed chamber method, in addition to it is not a natural state for the tortoise to grow in...a tortoise does not live its life in this constant high humidity....in an outdoor space a tortoise can move from one micro climate to another with relative ease...in a closed chamber, there is not that choice...again, just one of my biggest issues with the "new" method of forced wet/hot/humid chambers....

I don't think blanket statements are being made. I think quite frankly you were reading them as blanket statements. It is clear if a person is talking about a hatchling or an adult from the title or information in the thread and the original question asked.

 

[ascott]

This may be, literally, the funniest thing I have read on this forum. I can assure you that there is absolutely no favorable bias towards Angela.

I can second that....

 

[ascott]

I don't think blanket statements are being made. I think quite frankly you were reading them as blanket statements. It is clear if a person is talking about a hatchling or an adult from the title or information in the thread and the original question asked.

Yes, blanket statements are being made all of the time and done without little regard to specifics of a new tortoise/turtle to the forum. I clearly know the difference between personal, custom and blanket statements...along with a multitude of others. Point being, this thread has a title that has clearly moved away from the original thread topic...so much so that it was given its own thread....

 

[Jacqui]

I closed this thread, as everybody had over 24 hours to have their say. Enough is enough. Please feel free to take your comments to PMs with each, but please still keep them as civil as you can. Thanks.