OH NO A HYBRID!

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81SHOVELHEAD

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Well JD i am not one to slam anyone on here & i think those are some awsome Hybrids..I like the colors. Can't wait to see what they will look like in 5 yrs...
Wondering if i will me able to get my Burmese Browns to breed with My Northern REDFOOTS...UMMMMM that would be awsome.
Mike D.
 

JLSchmittou

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They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..
 

Madkins007

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JLSchmittou said:
They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..

Just to clarify something- crossing dog breeds is not the same thing as crossing species, or even sub-species of tortoises since all domestic dogs are the same sub-species.

Leopard tortoises (Stigmochelys pardalis) and Sulcatas ([Geochelone sulcata[/i]) represent two different genera, although they used to both be in the Geochelone.

Domestic dogs are a subspecies of wolf* (Canus lupus familieris), so not even a dog and wolf cross would be the same thing. A more accurate crossing would be a domestic dog with something like the African Wild Dog (Lycaon pictus)- different Genus, same Family.

(*- this is not universally agreed on, but has some pretty solid evidence. Source:
Wozencraft, W. Christopher. "Order Carnivora". In Wilson, Don E., and Reeder, DeeAnn M., eds. Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press)



IF (and it is a big 'if') the placement of Leopards and Sulcatas in different genera is correct, then the offspring would most likely be infertile. In fact, this is one of the way that genus, species, and subspecies are traditionally defined- reproductive success and persistent characteristics.
 

EricIvins

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
Probably infertile.

Famous last words........

I have to laugh at how many times I've heard that, and how many times it has been proven wrong.......These aren't Mammals.......
 

Doritoinmontucky

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They are incredibly interesting. I am curious to see the growth and development of these cute little guys/galls. thanks for sharing them!

-Derrik
 

DeanS

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Very nice! I can't help but notice how much of a leopard head they have...and, of course, the sully shell! And DAMN! You sure do keep them well! Absolute poster children for the breed!:)
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Madkins007 said:
JLSchmittou said:
They are REALLY beautiful in coloring!! Wow. It will be fun to see how they develop!!! Gorgeous!! Hybrid, whatever, tell that to my schnoodle..

Just to clarify something- crossing dog breeds is not the same thing as crossing species, or even sub-species of tortoises since all domestic dogs are the same sub-species.

Leopard tortoises (Stigmochelys pardalis) and Sulcatas ([Geochelone sulcata[/i]) represent two different genera, although they used to both be in the Geochelone.

Domestic dogs are a subspecies of wolf* (Canus lupus familieris), so not even a dog and wolf cross would be the same thing. A more accurate crossing would be a domestic dog with something like the African Wild Dog (Lycaon pictus)- different Genus, same Family.

(*- this is not universally agreed on, but has some pretty solid evidence. Source:
Wozencraft, W. Christopher. "Order Carnivora". In Wilson, Don E., and Reeder, DeeAnn M., eds. Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press)



IF (and it is a big 'if') the placement of Leopards and Sulcatas in different genera is correct, then the offspring would most likely be infertile. In fact, this is one of the way that genus, species, and subspecies are traditionally defined- reproductive success and persistent characteristics.

Good post. Yes, a "lepracutta" is not so much like a schnoodle, as it is like a mule. Schnoodles, like all varieties of wolf, are completely fertile. Mules, being half horse-half donkey, are almost always sterile.

Of course, mules happen to also be otherwise very healthy, despite the infertility. That's probably because horses and donkeys are still fairly closely related. Other hybrids of more distantly related animals (like African and Asian elephants, for example) are very unhealthy and die very young.

Too soon to know what's going to happen with these "lepracuttas." So far they seem pretty healthy, but they may nevertheless turn out to be sterile.




EricIvins said:
GeoTerraTestudo said:
Probably infertile.

Famous last words........

I have to laugh at how many times I've heard that, and how many times it has been proven wrong.......These aren't Mammals.......

They're not last words yet, mate. Let's check again in 5-10 years (assuming they survive, as many distant hybrids have health problems), after these guys would be reaching sexual maturity, and check then.
 

N2TORTS

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Thanks for all the positive vibes ....we shall see ( and Eric I have to agree with you :D ) ... bottom line is other than for science/educational purpose I really havnt made plans to breed them . Like I mentioned before some have made these out to be a dime a dozen .... if so , I would like to see more info about them . Untill then .... we will have to wait and see ... ( and buy my book of course ~;) ) ..... <~~~ juss joking.... anyhow thought I would share some other highlites among them ~ enjoy
ZX7-1.jpg
ZX11-1.jpg
ZX5.jpg


Happy Tort~N

JD~:)

PS .... Madman ... you always write well and very knowledgable A+ Sir.
Who ever made the comment about them dying young because there hybrids...are you kidding? Have you ever bred anything else ? Snakes , lizards, birds ? ... The dont die young unless there is bad genes to begin with it has nothing to do with a hybrid/cross. Plus I dont live in Arkansas..... :p

Dean .. the " sullie " master ... thanks for hip comment ! :D
 

Weda737

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Haters gonna hate, But I see nothing wrong with the hybrids in this case, there doesn't seem to be such a dramatic difference in the species that it would affect the well being of the animals. Frankly, if you want to be anal about animal breeding, look at all the dog breeds that have serious health issues, tiny toy purse dogs with floating kneecaps, heavy big dogs with hip displasia, even the shar pei, skin issues and many need surgery to get the skin out of their eyes. Why do we breed these things? For our pleasure, cute to look at etc. Hybrids such as this shouldn't be a problem in the hands of good keepers. I'm getting off my soapbox now before I fall through it. Keep us updated on their personalities, I hear leopards are more docile and shy than sulcatas, I wonder how these are gonna turn out.
 

ALDABRAMAN

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JD, When I grow up I want to be like you, I see your passion!
 

froghaven5

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I like em! Really growing up nice. As far as crossing. A muscovy duck will mate with any duck(mallard descent) and will produce mules but healthy however if a chicken crosses with guinea fowl (which they will and make odd looking creatures) they are not usually too healthy and die young. I guess what I'm saying is you won't know unless a problem arise, but so far they look really healthy.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Weda737 said:
Frankly, if you want to be anal about animal breeding, look at all the dog breeds that have serious health issues, tiny toy purse dogs with floating kneecaps, heavy big dogs with hip displasia, even the shar pei, skin issues and many need surgery to get the skin out of their eyes. Why do we breed these things? For our pleasure, cute to look at etc.

I regularly condemn poor breeding practices in dogs as well. I don't think we should perpetuate highly altered breeds, either.
 

wildak

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Very nice. I can see benefits to cross breeding . Learning what species can cross and reproduce could save species in the very near future. Like if there's only a handfull of a type of tortoise you could then cross it to another species and after several generations and many years later have a whole new bloodline that's a pure blood.
If you have one extremely rare male tortoise you could possibly breed it to an endless amount of females of another species.
I want to see a Saddleback Galapagoes/ Radiated cross. LOL
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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wildak said:
Very nice. I can see benefits to cross breeding . Learning what species can cross and reproduce could save species in the very near future. Like if there's only a handfull of a type of tortoise you could then cross it to another species and after several generations and many years later have a whole new bloodline that's a pure blood.
If you have one extremely rare male tortoise you could possibly breed it to an endless amount of females of another species.
I want to see a Saddleback Galapagoes/ Radiated cross. LOL

Relevant thread: "Hybrid?"
 

Malorey

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I am one out of the loop with the breeding of 'Hybrids', so will have to look into it to see the debates on it. (I'm also in to ...view... a good debate, LOL.) ;)

Your two are good looking Tortoise! :D Can't wait to see more of them. I too, love the parents as well. :)
 

Gmoney

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Nay sayers will be what they are. I'd like to see any possible hybrid, they're off the chain!
 
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