OK, I'm panicking a little bit

[llaperle]

Looking for some help please.

One of my 5-month old Hermanns hasn't seemed very well for the past few days, and I am quite worried.

Leonard and Rajesh came to live with me almost 2 months ago now. Leonard has always been "quieter" than Rajesh, but over the last 3 days he rarely seems to open his eyes (unless I soak him), and he sleeps a lot.
This morning I sat and observed while I fed the two, and Leonard just sat there and then walked away from his food without eating anything, while Raj chowed down.

They live in a cypress mulch substrate, with a moss soaked area in the hide, part in the heat and part outside of the heat.
To bask I use a 75W bulb to reach a temp of about 90 degrees. For UVB I use a Repti Glo 5.0 (which after some reading here may not be the best choice, and has been unplugged since yesterday).

Their diet is primarily Spring mix salad, and I add dandelion greens occassionally. They get some fruit about once or twice a month.
I also give them some ZooMed grassland tortoise food once a week (similar to Mazuri I think) for added vitamins and minerals. They also have a cuttlebone for calcium.

When I just picked him up for visual inspection, his eyelids seem puffy, and his plastron is very soft and slightly concave in the middle. Is he dehydrated?

A vet specializing in torts does not seem to be something which is readily available to me right now (a couple days for an appt and a couple hours drive to get there).

I would greatly appreciate any opinions and advice. I'm so worried about him.

LORI

 

[Edna]

First, bring up the temp of the basking spot to 100f. Make sure the temps at the cool end aren't too cool. Hermanns think about hibernating at this time of the year unless their lighting and ambient temps tell them its OK to stay awake.
Make sure the soak water is warm. 95f is a temp that has been suggested on the forum, and my torts are very comfortable with the soak at that temp.
Get mercury vapor bulb for heat, light, and UVB. Your tort can't absorb calcium unless he's getting his UVB's and that might be the reason for the soft plastron.
You can try adding baby food carrots to his soak water. Some of the members use the baby food soaks regularly as part of baby tort first aid.
Good luck to you and Leonard. I'm sure others will weigh in with additional suggestions.

 

[ewam]

You might want to separate the two if Lenard isn't eating.

 

[llaperle]

Thanks Edna,
I have moved the basking bulb a little closer and it is now about 95 degrees in there. I think I will need to move to a bigger bulb to get it much warmer, in which case I should probably just try and switch to an MVB bulb. I think I will need to order one on the internet as our small town seems to lack this particular bulb. Is there anything specific I should know about the MVB bulb when I order?

The temp at the opposite end of the enclosure is about 72 degrees (I just checked). Do you think that is warm enough?

I will get some carrot baby food this afternoon when I am out.

Thank you for your reply

LORI

 

[ascott]

My first and foremost advice would be to provide individual enclosures for them....I would also bump the temps in the hot spot to 95ish. If you have young torts I would make sure that your cool side does not get below 80-85ish. If you have young torts I would be sure to have a heat bulb along with a the long tube low grade uvb light in addition to a medium grade MVB for 2-3 hours use each day then switch it off and turn on the heat bulb and tube uvb for remainder of day then a bulb for night heat if you don't have a che....if you have young tortoise you do not want to fry their eyes with full day of MVB....

I too would not use the coil uvb bulb if it has to be within 4 feet of you tortoise .....if that bulb was closer to your tort than approx 4 feet then he may be feeling the affect in a negative way....

However, if you have a second tort in the same enclosure and he appears to be having no ill affect...I would have to suspect that there is mental bullying going on....I am a firm believer that two torts are hard to have thrive sharing the same enclosure...IMHO...it simply is not a natural state...I would break up that pair asap....

Again, IMO

 

[Edna]

I'm using Zoo Med PowerSun MBV bulbs. I buy their 100 watt bulbs for this time of the year when temps outside are moderate, 160 watts for deep winter when we have sub-zero temps and the house heat doesn't really keep up. I've been ordering mine from lllreptile.com, but there might be a supplier in Canada that would be easier for you to deal with.
In my first post I had meant to suggest separating them as well, at least until you can establish that Leonard is healthy, eating and growing.

 

[llaperle]

Well, sadly Leonard is no better today, and in fact when I weighed him this morning he was down a gram (from 24 to 23)

I certainly haven't given up though and he is now soaking in a little concoction I have made, which includes; carrot baby food, polyvitamin drops and liquid calcium (oh, and water of course).

I'll keep up the fight as long as he will. Thanks for all your advice.

LORI

 

[african cake queen]

hi, wish your little guy the best. good luck.

 

[ascott]

I hope he does better soon....have you separated them to see if that will help out and also to allow you to increase the temps for Leonard while he is getting strong?

 

[llaperle]

Morning Angela,

I have not separated them yet, only because I do not have a second setup ready to go.

The MVB has been ordered though, so as soon as it gets here I have a little spot for him to go in to as he convalesces.

No changes to report this morn, but he did eat a few bites of dandelin greeens last night after his soak.

Hated to leave him at home today while I work, but I did wake him up early for a soak. I'm sure he LOVED that! LOL.

 

[llaperle]

Just a little update...

Leonard seems to be making some headway.

Both yesterday and today when I weighed him pre-soak he had gained a gram. He is now up to 25g (from the 23 that he was on Sunday). Last night he took a few bites of his beet greens too.

He's still lazy and reluctant to open his eyes.

I have shut off the UVB again and am still waiting for the MVB. His soaks contain both calcium and Vitamin D3 so he shouldn't be missing anything anyway by it being off.

I'm definetely going to keep doing the soaks for a little while yet, but I may decrease them back to once a day soon.

LORI

 

[jackrat]

Hope he gets better.

 

[Pokeymeg]

In order to try and make him eat more you could try feeding him radicchio. Torts in general, and especially my Hermann, go absolutely crazy over the stuff. It has a strong smell, so maybe it will entice him to nibble a little more. Every bite counts, right?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I would stop with the coil bulb. Don't use it at all. Don't worry about UVB until you get the MVB. Just use a regular 100 watt incandescent bulb for now. I would move him into anything to get him away from his mate. Keep the incandescent bulb on him all day. Make the temp in his habitat 100 degrees under the bulb and 80 degrees on the cool side. You can get a cheap tote at Walmart or any place like that just to get him away from Rajesh. Keep him warm all the time. I think it's a combination of bullying and the coil bulb. It may take some time to get over this, but use the carrots every time you soak which should be daily and for 20 minutes. Follow what Angela has advised but leave the MVB on all day.

 

[llaperle]

Hello all,

I thought I would provide you with an update. I am still waiting for my MVB to arrive via snail mail, but have had the coil UVB off for about a week now.
He is doing MUCH better. He's opening his eyes again, and his appetite has returned also.
I am continuing to do the baby food soaks daily, and will do so for a bit yet while he regains his strength and energy.
He's even back to pooping in the soak so he must have enough oral intake to support that (yippee for poop).

Maybe it was the bulb, maybe it was something else...Hard to say for sure, but I am delighted that he is doing better and acting more like himself. He was always the quieter of the two (Rajesh is a bit kamakaze).

I honestly don't see evidence of any bullying, and he is actually a very slight bit larger than Rajesh. They almost never interact in their enclosure. Just two ships in the night really...

Thanks again for all the help. It is so comforting to know that I have so much expertise and support at my fingertips...

LORI

 

[Pokeymeg]

Hello all,

I thought I would provide you with an update. I am still waiting for my MVB to arrive via snail mail, but have had the coil UVB off for about a week now.
He is doing MUCH better. He's opening his eyes again, and his appetite has returned also.
I am continuing to do the baby food soaks daily, and will do so for a bit yet while he regains his strength and energy.
He's even back to pooping in the soak so he must have enough oral intake to support that (yippee for poop).

Maybe it was the bulb, maybe it was something else...Hard to say for sure, but I am delighted that he is doing better and acting more like himself. He was always the quieter of the two (Rajesh is a bit kamakaze).

I honestly don't see evidence of any bullying, and he is actually a very slight bit larger than Rajesh. They almost never interact in their enclosure. Just two ships in the night really...

Thanks again for all the help. It is so comforting to know that I have so much expertise and support at my fingertips...

LORI

I always find it so amusing how happy we can all get when we see poop! Wohoo poop!

Even though there was no physical evidence of bullying, there could still be bullying....'Bullying' may not be the right word. Without meaning to, your bigger tort may be causing your smaller one to feel anxiety, just by being in the same enclosure. It may have nothing to do with size at all.

 

[llaperle]

It is with a very heavy heart that I report that I awoke this morning to find that Leonard died during the night.

He seemed to be doing so much better, and I actually thought that he was going to be okay.

I don't know what else to say.

It does bring me a very slight bit of comfort that just yesterday I was reading a discussion thread on here about how challenging hatchlings can be, and how often this happens.

Thank you again for all of your support of the past 2 weeks.

LORI

 

[Pokeymeg]

That is such terrible news! I am so very sorry to hear about your loss. You were doing such a great job! You just never know with hatchlings...RIP little one