Ongoing Email: Lugarti Natural Reptile Bedding Impaction

[pguinpro]

Impaction
3 messages
Paul <@gmail.com> Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:41
To: [email protected]

You say your product does not cause impaction but if sand is digested by tortoises it will cause impaction regardless of how it is mixed with soil/substrate. Also your product does not have a list of what it contains such as a composition
sheet or basic ingredients.

If it contains sand it need to say so on the packaging or else you'll get sued for not listing it. The first person to get impaction is going to sue you for their vet bill, pain suffering, & emotional distress for their dead tortoise that they've had for years all because you didn't list ingredients.

Regards,

Paul

Robert Coral <[email protected]> Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 08:23
Reply-to: Robert Coral <[email protected]>
To: Paul <@gmail.com>
Hello,
I'm sorry, but you are incorrect on all accounts. Also, our website clearly states what the
ingredients are.
Robert Coral
President & CEO | Lugarti, Inc
[Quoted text hidden]
Paul Guiney <[email protected]> Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 08:42
To: Robert Coral <[email protected]>
If that is correct then it does contain sand which does cause impaction. Any sand no matter how fine will eventually
cause impaction; especially in hatchlings. Until you can prove otherwise I won't be recommending or selling your product.
Regards,
Paul
[Quoted text hidden]

When I first visited the site it did not have ingredients and upon checking this morning it now says that it contains fine sand. I was told by Serpentarium that it's Calci-sand which I think is bs. I was told by a Herptologist that any amount of sand can cause impaction in hatchlings/babies because of their sensitive digestive system.

I think this president is just trying to make a buck and doesn't care.

 

[pguinpro]

Sent this morning: Our team (as well as many others) have been using NRB to house newborn bearded dragons, leopard geckos, and various tortoise species their entire life for over 6 years now, without a single case of impaction. There is no further proof needed. The sand we use is so extremely fine that it's almost a powder. There is absolutely no risk of impaction using NRB.


Robert Coral
President & CEO | Lugarti, Inc

 

[Stoneman]

Some peopleswear by it while others are hesitant to use it because of compaction risk. Are you putting the food directly into the sand or are you using a raised plate?

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Interesting.

 

[pguinpro]

I use a terra cotta plant tray. The packages that I bought did not have basic ingredients listed; bought them off ebay. Products bought directly do indicate clearly that it contains fine sand. My tort usually doesn't nibble at all at the bark, mulch, or dirt. He stays in his tray when feeding. I was picking a bone with this company because it wasn't listed on my packaging and I was warned by other members via PM not to use lugarti. I've since changed my mind and thing I'll use it as substrate and then cover it with 2" bark/mulch; I have the only lazy sulcata that doesn't like digging lol.

 

[daniellenc]

I don’t use sand myself but thousands of turtles and tortoises live in sandy areas. Impaction and scratched irritated eyes are possible so I’ve just never seen the point with other mediums available. I’m probably missing the back story but why argue with the manufacturer? Just don’t use it.

 

[daniellenc]

I use a terra cotta plant tray. The packages that I bought did not have basic ingredients listed; bought them off ebay. Products bought directly do indicate clearly that it contains fine sand. My tort usually doesn't nibble at all at the bark, mulch, or dirt. He stays in his tray when feeding. I was picking a bone with this company because it wasn't listed on my packaging and I was warned by other members via PM not to use lugarti. I've since changed my mind and thing I'll use it as substrate and then cover it with 2" bark/mulch; I have the only lazy sulcata that doesn't like digging lol.

Ok now this makes sense lol sorry. A large tortoises risk of impaction from a sand mix is relatively low especially not being fed on it. I use spahgnum moss also a TFO no no mixed with cypress and orchid mulch. I love it but it’s been suspected to cause impaction as well.

 

[pguinpro]

TFO, totally freak out? Anyways, I use Cypress and Orchid bark and will continue to do so. If he starts eating it then I will stop using it.

No matter what you use someone will always have an issue with it. Even if you went to Africa and tried to replicate their environment from collected materials people would still criticize.

Don't use sand, don't use orchid bark, don't use cypress mulch, don't use rocks, don't use bagged soil or dirt...so what do you use? I've tried coco coir and will not be using it ever again.

 

[JoesMum]

TFO, totally freak out?

TFO = Tortoise Forum dot Org = this forum's website

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I use Orchid bark as well as bagged mulch that I have hand sifted for debris with my adults. They live outside and I'm sure they ingest sand. But for baby tortoises, sand as a substrate is dangerous. Rocks..They can be around. But any small enough to get eaten might get eaten if the diet available to the tortoise is lacking in minerals.
Bagged soil I also use. Potting soil that is available here in south Florida is mostly without sand. That's not the case in every location or from every source. I use that in my baby enclosure with orchid bark.
Coco coir I've never used. Apparently if it isn't crumbled and moistened carefully it can irritate eyes.
It sounds like you have taken to heart some baseline information. But all circumstances aren't the same for everyone with every tortoise in every part of the world keeping tortoises different ways.
Should you avoid substrate containing sand if you have a young tortoise? Yes.
Is sand in the substrate always going to be an issue? No.
Should manufacturers trying to sell us "fancy" sand to use for our animals provide us with an ingredient list? Yes.
But I know no longtime keepers that still spend that extra money for those 100% unnecessary and expensive pre packaged bags.

 

[pguinpro]

I like the cypress mulch and dislike the coco coir because it's messy and gets in my torts face; if used I keep it under the mulch. I wanted to use lugarti but if it has sand then I'm opposed.

 

[Stoneman]

I use artificial grass and yoga matts for the main walking around area. Mine have produced eggs. Only one has taken bites out of the yoga matt but passed the little chuncks. It is easy to sanitize and keep clean, and I don't have to worry about all the problems you guys have mentioned. They eat poop, so I am sure non- digestible material is fine. For the ones old 3nough to lay I have an area desgnated for coco coir and play sand that I keep moist.

 

[Stoneman]

The food area is nowhere near that substate.