Opinions on this grassland tort starter kit?

Brit G

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https://www.tortoisesupply.com/categories/Tortoise-Kits-&-Cages/

I feel like it was easier buying the supplies for my beardie than it has been for a leopard tortoise... I see conflicting info and controversial advice. Hoping there's a trusted "kit" or list out there that can help me out, or at least get started.

Opinions on this kit from website called tortoise supply? Or, any other kits or lists you guys trust?

Next, need to figure out where to buy a good enclosure for the hatchling... It's gotta be huge and close-topped, I've gathered. I have no skills or tools so hopefully a giant terrarium/aquarium will do. Unless anyone knows someone who creates and sells good hatchling-to-yearling tort enclosures, perhaps something from PVC that can be collasped, shipped, and reassembled with common tools.
 

Tom

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ascott

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I can't open that link.

Animal Plastics makes the best cages I've seen, but they take months to get. Reptiles basics makes one that is large enough to start with while you wait for a larger Animal Plastics cage to be made and delivered. Here are mine:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-stack-of-animal-plastics-closed-chambers.165626/

Tom, the link shows it is the "stuff" that goes in the the enclosure and not the enclosure....mini deep dish domes....long lighting tube...5.0 uvb substrate...variety of commercially processed food items....etc.
 

ascott

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https://www.tortoisesupply.com/categories/Tortoise-Kits-&-Cages/

I feel like it was easier buying the supplies for my beardie than it has been for a leopard tortoise... I see conflicting info and controversial advice. Hoping there's a trusted "kit" or list out there that can help me out, or at least get started.

Opinions on this kit from website called tortoise supply? Or, any other kits or lists you guys trust?

Next, need to figure out where to buy a good enclosure for the hatchling... It's gotta be huge and close-topped, I've gathered. I have no skills or tools so hopefully a giant terrarium/aquarium will do. Unless anyone knows someone who creates and sells good hatchling-to-yearling tort enclosures, perhaps something from PVC that can be collasped, shipped, and reassembled with common tools.

I personally have nothing against the link/co on the link at all :) But the stuff there is hit and miss with me....and does not include an enclosure itself....I would shop items individually on line and or at the hardware store...that is just me ....wait and see what the others opine....
 

TechnoCheese

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I would say no. It doesn’t come with half the stuff you’ll need, and that 8 qt of substrate wouldn’t even cover the floor of any terrarium bigger than 20 gallons, lol
 

TechnoCheese

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Additionally, some of the stuff it comes with, you shouldn’t use. Like the mercury vapor bulb, which is too desiccating on small tortoises.
 

ascott

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Additionally, some of the stuff it comes with, you shouldn’t use. Like the mercury vapor bulb, which is too desiccating on small tortoises.

Well, a MVB, if the appropriate strength can be a useful tool....if the remainder of the enclosure is set up appropriately then dry out should not be an issue.... just my take :)
 

TechnoCheese

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Well, a MVB, if the appropriate strength can be a useful tool....if the remainder of the enclosure is set up appropriately then dry out should not be an issue.... just my take :)

It’s pretty hard to find one that isn’t intense, seeing as they’re all made for desert animals, particularly extreme ones like bearded dragons.
It’s still definitely a problem in a humid enclosure. Even at 90% humidity, if a basking spots too strong(like an MVBs would be), then it is very desiccating. Same deal with spot lamps.
 

ascott

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It’s pretty hard to find one that isn’t intense, seeing as they’re all made for desert animals, particularly extreme ones like bearded dragons.
It’s still definitely a problem in a humid enclosure. Even at 90% humidity, if a basking spots too strong(like an MVBs would be), then it is very desiccating. Same deal with spot lamps.

Well, you can get them at low wattage/strength all the way to the high wattage/strength for the larger enclosure/space.....I do and have used a variety of wattage and had nothing but success....while you indicate "desert animals" even desert dwellers require some bit of moisture and water....but if the enclosure is set up correctly and accounting for the MVB then there is not a problem...the bigger problem is lack of proper UVB.
 

TechnoCheese

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Well, you can get them at low wattage/strength all the way to the high wattage/strength for the larger enclosure/space.....I do and have used a variety of wattage and had nothing but success....while you indicate "desert animals" even desert dwellers require some bit of moisture and water....but if the enclosure is set up correctly and accounting for the MVB then there is not a problem...the bigger problem is lack of proper UVB.

Oh believe me, I know they need moisture lol. I just said they were more intense baskers. I have personally never used MVB. I’m just going off of what I’ve heard from most members and users.
 

ascott

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Oh believe me, I know they need moisture lol. I just said they were more intense baskers. I have personally never used MVB. I’m just going off of what I’ve heard from most members and users.

I agree that they are a more intense source of heat/rays---like the sun, the closest there is anyway that I am aware of :)....the hot/basking spot should be the hottest 100-115 f and the grade of heat slowly decrease as the enclosure expands away from the hot/basking spot....micro climates (even a few) are super important.....all the way down to a cool dry spot....hm? Most of the members and users that I have ever interacted with use some form of MVB.... hey, there are a few different ways for the tort to obtain the uvb that they need...natural, MVB and then I also like long tube uvb combined with a basking bulb for some of the forrest dwellers all the way to an intense basking/hot spot....that is super dependent on what species we are talking about is all....I just did not want to leave it that bashing a MVB was on point.....I personally believe most torts do much better with natural sun light offerings and not artificial....but there are times artificial is necessary for a variety of reasons and set ups :)
 

Tom

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Well, you can get them at low wattage/strength all the way to the high wattage/strength for the larger enclosure/space.....I do and have used a variety of wattage and had nothing but success....while you indicate "desert animals" even desert dwellers require some bit of moisture and water....but if the enclosure is set up correctly and accounting for the MVB then there is not a problem...the bigger problem is lack of proper UVB.
MVBs are extremely desiccating. Even more so than regular incandescent bulbs. They are okay when used carefully over an adult tortoise in an open table that is set up correctly, but anyone trying to grow a baby leopard tortoise under one will see some pyramiding even with high humidity, warm temps and daily soaks. I and many others here can tell you this based on first hand experience.
 

ascott

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MVBs are extremely desiccating. Even more so than regular incandescent bulbs. They are okay when used carefully over an adult tortoise in an open table that is set up correctly, but anyone trying to grow a baby leopard tortoise under one will see some pyramiding even with high humidity, warm temps and daily soaks. I and many others here can tell you this based on first hand experience.

Hi Tom....yup, special care and attention absolutely need to be paid when forcing growth of a baby in any captive set up....not disagreement there....however, with special care and attention MVBs are still a perfect and effective choice for most species.....but if you have a newcomer and they pop a tortoise in a plastic tub...toss some dry dirt in and plop a tortoise in...well, we all know too well what that outcome is....so that is why this type of forum is super important....the "tweak" is super essential....but the right equipment is just as important.... :)
 

Tom

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Hi Tom....yup, special care and attention absolutely need to be paid when forcing growth of a baby in any captive set up....not disagreement there....however, with special care and attention MVBs are still a perfect and effective choice for most species.....but if you have a newcomer and they pop a tortoise in a plastic tub...toss some dry dirt in and plop a tortoise in...well, we all know too well what that outcome is....so that is why this type of forum is super important....the "tweak" is super essential....but the right equipment is just as important.... :)
Here we go again…

Tell the people reading how many hatchling leopards you have raised under MVBs. How many hatchlings of any other species have you raised under MVBs?

My advice is based on experience raising 100s of hatchling under MVBs and other light sources over many years.

@wellington has some recent experience with these bulbs over leopards. Barb, will you please share your experience with Ascott, Brit, and anyone else reading?
 

ascott

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Here we go again…

Tell the people reading how many hatchling leopards you have raised under MVBs. How many hatchlings of any other species have you raised under MVBs?

My advice is based on experience raising 100s of hatchling under MVBs and other light sources over many years.

@wellington has some recent experience with these bulbs over leopards. Barb, will you please share your experience with Ascott, Brit, and anyone else reading?

Tom, nope---I am not going to join your party. I, unlike you, do not have a desire to toot my horn. Now....I find it interesting that you....the person who spouted for, well, as long as I can recall...how awesome MVBs are and how much you use/used them...to now try to "call me to the carpet" because on this as well as a few other things I do not agree with you.... If you again need to prove your penis is larger than mine....have at it sir...I do not need the stroking, but apparently you still do???

If anyone asks me what I think about care for a tortoise I will share what I know, what I have done and then disclose that I do not care for all species of tortoise but will share what I know by "research" and I never claim to have the almighty right way...well, as you do. Oh wait, until that almighty way changes....kinda like when you said Russian tortoise have similar care to Ca Desert Tortoise and then when I said the same thing...well, with a few exceptions...you then proceeded to start this bulls&%it then by saying that Russian tortoise care is completely different than that of a Ca Desert Tortoise.

Tom, and here I had thought you had grown a bit....again, with regards to you...I am wrong....unlike you, I am able to say when I am wrong. After this post...as I had to the last time you "flashed" me....I will not reply to you in regards to this post....so as you did last time, try to talk crap about me because unlike you...I do not tortoise mill a gazillion tortoise....as you so often announce to do... Chow.
 

Tom

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So again, we have one poster offering advice based on nothing, and arguing directly with someone who has much first hand experience with the subject matter being discussed.

Since she didn't answer, and chose personal attacks and insults instead, I can tell you she has raised zero hatchlings of any species under a MVB and so she has no idea what will happen. I suggest anyone reading should take advice from someone who has actually done what is being asked about.
 

daniellenc

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I use the same tote and initially a 60 watt MVB which just simply got too hot because they can’t run on a thermostat. They’re meant to be mounted higher up or used in a very large space. I’d go with a CHE or RHP.
 

wellington

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I just want too add, in response to Toms alert too me. I have raised one hatchling in a 4x4 greenhouse, very high humidity and using the mvb for basking and uvb and still got pyramiding.
Then I had 4 hatchlings raising up in a smaller enclosure, with a lower ceiling, thinking I would keep the humidity and heat lower to tort level and would need less heat on all the time. Always running on a thermostat, using Che's and mvb and very high soupy humidity and still pyramiding. The pyramiding is not as bad as before I joined the forum and raised one lumpy leopard, but not smooth either. If I were going to hatch any more, I would not use the mvb, but a flourescent for uvb and would do an enclosure inside a heated enclosure and a regular bulb for basking.
 

wellington

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When I joined the forum the mercury vapor bulbs were the thing too use for uvb, heat and light. At that time they were the best and lasted a year. Over the years since, with members sharing their solar meter findings on the mvb's, and with pyramiding still happening even with a "closed" chamber and high humidity, and a few changes by certain members, it is now not as great as first advertised. They are expensive, delicate, the uvb isn't that great, the uvb doesn't last a year and the heat is terrible on the shells still causing pyramiding of some degree to some/most even if using a "closed" chamber.
The closed chamber needs to be what would be considered a true closed chamber, not an enclosure that has too many places that heat, and humidity can escape and outside dry air too enter.
 
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