Our two new babies!

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Mangito

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For those of you who don't regularly look through the Introductions section, I'm Mangito and I have recently suddenly acquired two new Sulcata hatchlings, now about 3 weeks old, which we named Torty and Koopa. Both had their umbilical cords still, although Torty's fell off the first day.

I have recently upgraded the enclosure, using organic sphagnum moss as substrate, a nice humid hide, a cool spot and a hot / basking spot. I also upgraded the food to a nice mix of romaine, mustard greens, bok choy, kale, and the occasional peas. I think they mostly are romaine and peas before I got them, because they seem to be the favorite, but I'm trying to get them used to the other stuff at the moment.

Now, I've been worried about MBD, because I've seen a video of the tremors and my babies do the exact same thing. Also their patron felt slightly soft yesterday, but I don't know if that could be the new moist substrate. Also I haven't seen them eat too much, but that could be the new diet. They never turn down peas, so I've decided to sprinkle peas with Rep-Cal every day for a few days and then every other day for a while. They are still very active, and love to explore the backyard (with careful supervision of course!)

Now I'm worried about something I'm seeing on Torty's plastron, the brown around the umbilical area and a little higher? Please, tell me what you think :

Torty:
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Koopa:
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Their home (which I know isn't perfect but it will have to do until I can afford a glass tank):
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Linzbragg

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It'll cost you just as much if not less and be way better (than and aquarium) for your babies if you build them a tortoise table. If you do use a tank, make sure you put something around the bottom of all the sides so they can't see out. Being able to see outside and not be able to get there really stresses them out, and they could injure themselves.


Also, if you're having trouble keeping the cage you have now or any in the future humid, covering the entire top and partial sides (lights and everything) with aluminum foil will keep them nice and humid. Very important for young sulcatas. Idk much about MBD, but plenty of UVB light helps. I've also read about ppl (on this forum) giving their torts a soak in baby food (peas) with the vitamins added.
 

wellington

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Actually a tortoise table can be hard to keep the humidity and temps where they need to be. For about 25-35 dollars go to Home Depot and get the largest plastic storage tote box they have. Cut a hole for the CHE and one for the mbv, fill with substrate, get a good thermometer and raise them the hot and humid way, describe in Toms threads below. Basking, 95+ over all temp, day and night 80 with humidity of 80%. Soak them in warm water every day for 20-30 minutes and feed as wide a variety as possible.


In the mean time, cover the cage with some plastic to help hold in heat and humidity. The second baby looks fine, the first pics, not sure if there is a problem with the cord area or not. Yes, babies that young will sometimes be a little softer feeling. Babies also sleep a lot.
 

luvpetz27

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Is it possible to make them an enclosure outside too? They will get HUGE and they would get the natural sunlight that they need. Great pictures by the way and welcome to the forum!!
 

Mangito

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My stupid phone... Plastron not patron..

http://static.photobucket.com/playe...46/Mangito420/20130725_105856_zps7936be9a.mp4

This is a video of the "tremors" I'm so worried about.


wellington said:
In the mean time, cover the cage with some plastic to help hold in heat and humidity. The second baby looks fine, the first pics, not sure if there is a problem with the cord area or not. Yes, babies that young will sometimes be a little softer feeling. Babies also sleep a lot.

Could the brown stuff be serious? The second baby im having trouble getting to eat the greens.. Any advice?
 

Mangito

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wellington said:
Actually a tortoise table can be hard to keep the humidity and temps where they need to be. For about 25-35 dollars go to Home Depot and get the largest plastic storage tote box they have. Cut a hole for the CHE and one for the mbv, fill with substrate, get a good thermometer and raise them the hot and humid way, describe in Toms threads below. Basking, 95+ over all temp, day and night 80 with humidity of 80%. Soak them in warm water every day for 20-30 minutes and feed as wide a variety as possible.


In the mean time, cover the cage with some plastic to help hold in heat and humidity. The second baby looks fine, the first pics, not sure if there is a problem with the cord area or not. Yes, babies that young will sometimes be a little softer feeling. Babies also sleep a lot.



This may be stupid but what exactly does CHE and mvb stand for?
 

TortoiseRN

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MVB is Mercury Vapor Lamp and CHE is Ceramic Heat Emitter


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!


Gotta love reptile lingo!lol


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!


Sorry not lamp 'bulb'.


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!
 

Mangito

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TortoiseRN said:
MVB is Mercury Vapor Lamp and CHE is Ceramic Heat Emitter


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!


Gotta love reptile lingo!lol


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!


Sorry not lamp 'bulb'.


Thanks for layin down those funky beets!




Lol cool, thanks!
 

EllieN

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That's not tremors, it's breathing. I don't know why some go in and out when they breathe and others don't. My sully is a year old now and weighs a pound. Sometimes she breathes like that and sometimes she doesn't. I don't know why or what it's about, but I know she's perfectly healthy. I don't think you need to worry about that. Now, if you see bubbles coming out of his/her nose, that is probably a respiratory infection. That you would definitely need to worry about.
 

Mangito

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Haira32 said:
Mangito said:
My stupid phone... Plastron not patron..

http://static.photobucket.com/playe...46/Mangito420/20130725_105856_zps7936be9a.mp4

This is a video of the "tremors" I'm so worried
These are tremors?? Uh oh, my guy does this all the time... It does not seem unnatural.
I only worry because I saw a video of a baby sully with MBD, showing the tremors, and that's exactly what it looked like :(


EllieN said:
That's not tremors, it's breathing. I don't know why some go in and out when they breathe and others don't. My sully is a year old now and weighs a pound. Sometimes she breathes like that and sometimes she doesn't. I don't know why or what it's about, but I know she's perfectly healthy. I don't think you need to worry about that. Now, if you see bubbles coming out of his/her nose, that is probably a respiratory infection. That you would definitely need to worry about.

Well that's a relief! No bubbles or runny noses so far :D


 

krh11b23

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I don't think this is tremors from mbd, mine does this sometimes it's breathing
 

BuffaloTortoise

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I don't believe that a three-week old tortoise could already have MBD. This takes a while to develop. Keep the humidity up, keep them warm, and feed them well! :)

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using TortForum mobile app
 

Tom

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BuffaloTortoise said:
I don't believe that a three-week old tortoise could already have MBD. This takes a while to develop. Keep the humidity up, keep them warm, and feed them well! :)

I agree.​


Mangito said:
For those of you who don't regularly look through the Introductions section, I'm Mangito and I have recently suddenly acquired two new Sulcata hatchlings, now about 3 weeks old, which we named Torty and Koopa. Both had their umbilical cords still, although Torty's fell off the first day.

I have recently upgraded the enclosure, using organic sphagnum moss as substrate, a nice humid hide, a cool spot and a hot / basking spot. I also upgraded the food to a nice mix of romaine, mustard greens, bok choy, kale, and the occasional peas. I think they mostly are romaine and peas before I got them, because they seem to be the favorite, but I'm trying to get them used to the other stuff at the moment.

Now, I've been worried about MBD, because I've seen a video of the tremors and my babies do the exact same thing. Also their patron felt slightly soft yesterday, but I don't know if that could be the new moist substrate. Also I haven't seen them eat too much, but that could be the new diet. They never turn down peas, so I've decided to sprinkle peas with Rep-Cal every day for a few days and then every other day for a while. They are still very active, and love to explore the backyard (with careful supervision of course!)

Now I'm worried about something I'm seeing on Torty's plastron, the brown around the umbilical area and a little higher? Please, tell me what you think :

I believe that the way your are keeping them is causing you problems and I anticipate your problems getting worse. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if your babies get sick and die, I think your feelings will be hurt a lot worse than anything that I could say to you. Please understand this is constructive criticism. I'm saying it to try to help your babies.
1. Red bulbs during the day are a no go. They make things look funny. This might be why you have not seen them eat much too. They might be eating the moss due to the red light. Not good. Red bulbs aren't good for night time either, in my opinion, because they keep things lit up. Use a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat instead.
2. That is not a humid hide. It is much too open and all the humidity can escape. The wire cage sides make it even easier for your humidity and warmth to escape.
3. That cage is not appropriate for a tortoise. They need a solid barrier in front of them. Big tubs at the hardware store are only $15-20. You don't need a more expensive glass tank. The correct enclosure will also help to provide your babies with the proper warmth and humidity they need day and night, with out having to use excessive amount of desiccating electric heat due to open sides.
4. Do you have a proper thermometer with a remote probe yet? Do you know your four temps yet? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night? If they don't have much appetite, it is most likely due to temps and unstable conditions that exist in an open enclosure like that.
5. Your babies were too young to be sold. Tortoises do not have umbilical cords. They have a yolk sac that extends through the middle of the plastron. When they hatch and are properly housed as hatchlings, the yolk sac reabsorbs into the plastron and the umbilical scar closes up. When they are started too dry, like yours were, the yolk sac dries up and eventually breaks off. In the mean time they walk around with their dead, drying, rotting tissue stuck to them. That is what you saw. The fact that yours still had this going on tells me that they were very very young, and really not ready to go to a new home yet.
6. Your diet has improved since you first posted, and that is great, but they are still lacking fiber. They need grass, weeds and leaves. Store bought stuff is fine as a last resort, but you need to find some better things for them to eat. The longer you wait the worse it is and the more picky they will become. There are so many ways to accomplish what is needed. Ask for help if you need it.
7. As I said before, keeping them as a pair is an added stressor that is not going to help you along with all the other issues.

I hope we are able to help you before it is too late.
 

Mangito

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Tom said:
BuffaloTortoise said:
I don't believe that a three-week old tortoise could already have MBD. This takes a while to develop. Keep the humidity up, keep them warm, and feed them well! :)

I agree.​




I believe that the way your are keeping them is causing you problems and I anticipate your problems getting worse. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if your babies get sick and die, I think your feelings will be hurt a lot worse than anything that I could say to you. Please understand this is constructive criticism. I'm saying it to try to help your babies.
1. Red bulbs during the day are a no go. They make things look funny. This might be why you have not seen them eat much too. They might be eating the moss due to the red light. Not good. Red bulbs aren't good for night time either, in my opinion, because they keep things lit up. Use a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat instead.
2. That is not a humid hide. It is much too open and all the humidity can escape. The wire cage sides make it even easier for your humidity and warmth to escape.
3. That cage is not appropriate for a tortoise. They need a solid barrier in front of them. Big tubs at the hardware store are only $15-20. You don't need a more expensive glass tank. The correct enclosure will also help to provide your babies with the proper warmth and humidity they need day and night, with out having to use excessive amount of desiccating electric heat due to open sides.
4. Do you have a proper thermometer with a remote probe yet? Do you know your four temps yet? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night? If they don't have much appetite, it is most likely due to temps and unstable conditions that exist in an open enclosure like that.
5. Your babies were too young to be sold. Tortoises do not have umbilical cords. They have a yolk sac that extends through the middle of the plastron. When they hatch and are properly housed as hatchlings, the yolk sac reabsorbs into the plastron and the umbilical scar closes up. When they are started too dry, like yours were, the yolk sac dries up and eventually breaks off. In the mean time they walk around with their dead, drying, rotting tissue stuck to them. That is what you saw. The fact that yours still had this going on tells me that they were very very young, and really not ready to go to a new home yet.
6. Your diet has improved since you first posted, and that is great, but they are still lacking fiber. They need grass, weeds and leaves. Store bought stuff is fine as a last resort, but you need to find some better things for them to eat. The longer you wait the worse it is and the more picky they will become. There are so many ways to accomplish what is needed. Ask for help if you need it.
7. As I said before, keeping them as a pair is an added stressor that is not going to help you along with all the other issues.

I hope we are able to help you before it is too late.



I'm planning to buy a couple large sized totes as soon as possible. I tried to put the white heat bulb back in but it broke on the inside. We've also been letting them roam the backyard (carefully supervised) and eat the weeds.
 

Evy

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Tom, you are always giving to help and I really thank you and the rest of the members for all your info an patience with us all new ppl in the tortoise care. I'm always learning something new or confirming info each time that I read here.


My loves:
Husband
2 dogs Blue and Baxter
2 sulcatas Desmond and Penny.
 

Mangito

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Tom said:
I hope we are able to help you before it is too late.

How should I set up the plastic tote? Can the holes for the CHE and mvb go on the same side? Should the lid be on at all times? Is there any kind of schematic you could send me?
 

Rjhoop

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Mangito said:
Tom said:
I hope we are able to help you before it is too late.

How should I set up the plastic tote? Can the holes for the CHE and mvb go on the same side? Should the lid be on at all times? Is there any kind of schematic you could send me?

Besides Tom, and this forum, I see you live in Arizona! There are a bunch of breeders there, not pet stores... Breeders!! Do some leg work and see what they have for setups if your not understanding! And you don't put the top on at all! :)
 

Linzbragg

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Evy said:
Tom, you are always giving to help and I really thank you and the rest of the members for all your info an patience with us all new ppl in the tortoise care. I'm always learning something new or confirming info each time that I read here.


My loves:
Husband
2 dogs Blue and Baxter
2 sulcatas Desmond and Penny.

So true! I'm a first time tort owner, and 3 yrs ago when I got Franklin, Tom took the time to answer my questions and make suggestions. My tort and I will be forever grateful!


Keep the top off the tote, clip the lights to the side or hang them from above, and cover the whole thing (lights and all) with aluminum foil. Do you have a humidity gauge? I'm pretty sure the humidity should be 70 plus, someone else will know for sure


Also, until you get the tubs, put cardboard or something all the way around the bottom of the cage so the babies can't see out, that really stresses them out...another reason an aquarium isn't a good idea. Another reason is because they're going to outgrow it soon and your money should be spent on something else, like a UVB linear fluorescent bulb to help with their digestion and prevent MBD.
 

manetteaplin

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ImageUploadedByTortForum1378618082.814254.jpg not sure if my picture is going to load...but it is my plastic tote, and you can see my lamps mounted in the top
 
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