Our visit to a reptile specialist

[Moozillion]

We heard back from the specialists at the veterinary school.
Jacques' blood count is still way too high.
I'm dropping her off back at the vet hospital in New Orleans for 2 weeks of DAILY nebulizer treatments. She'll still get every other day tube feeding.

 

[mark1]

has Jacques been x-rayed at any point during this ? there are a number of things that can cause anorexia that an x-ray can identify , blockage , eggs , and pneumonia are 3 I can think of at the moment ..his high , I assume, white blood cell count , aside from an infection the baytril didn't get , what are his ideas as to why ? resistant bacteria ? viral ? immune issues ? cancer ? the lungs have a pretty good blood supply , a nebulizer from my thinking would be more for an uri ? .. I've cured pneumonia in turtles a lot , some of them were deathly sick , too weak to resist anything you did with them , a round or two of antibiotics has always worked on turtles that were unmistakably ill ..... I'm not a fan of force feeding as it's stressful , unless starvation is an issue , eating is usually the most evident indication of a successful treatment , and I believe force feeding them inhibits it .... I see lots of folks say antibiotics inhibit their appetites , I've not found that the general rule , usually after 2-3 doses a sick turtle will begin to return to normal .... some bacteria in reptiles has gotten resistant to baytril because of how long and to the extent it has been in the hobby ....... personally if it were mine i'd get her an ade and b injection and a round of fortaz , and i'd keep her in her environment ........ that's just my opinion , your vet may be very good and know he can do better ...... from what I've seen turtles in need of nebulized were in severe distress ......... I also would never dry dock a water turtle while on antibiotics , especially baytril ......... just some thoughts for you , maybe someone here can refute some of them for you , or all of them . but I must say , I think you do need to trust your vet and commit to his experience , and logic , if works for you , you go back , it's how I got all my vets , they all were given the opportunity to impress me , and they all have ............. good luck Jacques

 

[Moozillion]

Mark, I greatly appreciate your input and your obvious EXPERIENCE in treating turtles.
For me, there comes a time when I just have to decide whether or not to trust the professionals I have chosen. I place my pet in their hands, follow the progress and ask questions as things arise.
Dr. Rich has proven to me that he is interested in what is best for Jacques by his own treatment of her and his willingness to directly contact turtle specialists at the veterinary school on her behalf.

I can get very tearful about Jacques very quickly.
Sometimes I have to wait a few hours before making my posts here.
I hope very much that things work out well for her and I have to stay focused on that.

Again, I appreciate your interest in her and your support through all this.
So now we wait.
They'll call me with daily reports on her progress like before.

 

[CarolM]

Mark, I greatly appreciate your input and your obvious EXPERIENCE in treating turtles.
For me, there comes a time when I just have to decide whether or not to trust the professionals I have chosen. I place my pet in their hands, follow the progress and ask questions as things arise.
Dr. Rich has proven to me that he is interested in what is best for Jacques by his own treatment of her and his willingness to directly contact turtle specialists at the veterinary school on her behalf.

I can get very tearful about Jacques very quickly.
Sometimes I have to wait a few hours before making my posts here.
I hope very much that things work out well for her and I have to stay focused on that.

Again, I appreciate your interest in her and your support through all this.
So now we wait.
They'll call me with daily reports on her progress like before.

Shame Bea. Hang in there. You have been making the right calls so far about Jacques, so don't doubt yourself.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I wanted to start a thread to share our experience with a reptile specialist because i found it to be SO different from a visit with a "regular" vet. I brought my mud turtle to Dr. Greg Rich, who is listed on TFO veterinarian list. His business is Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital in Metairie, Louisiana. My regular vet had also said that if either of my turtles needed any kind of medical attention, that's who she would refer to.

The "Patient Information Sheet" had questions I've never seen on any other vet's questionnaire. In addition to the usual 'What is the species of our pet, age etc.' the questions included:
What was the source of the animal?
What is the substrate? How often is it changed?
What are the dimensions of the cage/enclosure? How long has the animal lived in this enclosure?
What is the humidity of the cage/enclosure?
What is the water source? How often is it changed?
What is the UV source? How often is the bulb changed?
What is the calcium source?
What do you feed? How much does the animal eat at a feeding? How often do you feed?
...there were other questions, too, I just can't remember them all. But these impressed me because they are so much in line with the things WE think of here on TFO as important to good husbandry.

They did not take my turtle from me, but brought me to the exam room, and obviously expected me to stay for the exam. I like that a lot.
When we saw Dr. Rich, he first studied her carapace and plastron closely- pressing gently and also checking that the hinges on her plastron move.
He looked at her eyes and nostrils. He had a special gadget that he used to gently open her mouth.
Since one of the symptoms that brought us to see him was that she was swimming lopsided, he wanted to see for himself. They got a tub of water to float her in, and sure enough, you could see that her right shoulder area was significantly lower in the water than the rest of her. He said a turtle swimming lopsided could mean an infection in the lungs but it could also just be normal for that turtle; a blood test that they do in the office would answer that question.
He said there's a vein that runs all around the edge of their carapace, so that's where he drew the blood from- using one of the tiniest syringes and needles I've ever seen.
If she had an infection, he said the options would be either come in for antibiotic injection every 3 days or for her to stay a week and get daily injections. But he wanted to wait for the test results before making a recommendation.

The white blood cells, which fight infection, in aquatic turtles are considered high enough to indicate an infection if they are at 21,000 to 23,000. My turtle's white blood cell count came back at 30,000. He said the types of blood cells that were increased indicates that the inflammation/infection is chronic- that is, it's been going on for a good while and didn't just start last week. He also said that with such a high white blood cell count, getting antibiotics every 3 days was not enough, and recommended that she stay in the hospital and get daily antibiotic injections as well as tube feeding. He had an itemized list of what the cost for a week in their hospital with that type of care would be and I was pleasantly surprised- it wasn't nearly what I was expecting.

They will phone us daily with an update and will call any time there's a change. It's 9:30 in the morning and they've already called me. The lady who called me is clearly one directly involved in my turtle's care. They are dry-docking her and soaking her at least daily. She said my turtle seems to be tolerating the treatment well and is very active. She still floats lop-sided, but that's to be expected so early on.

I am very pleased with the service and very impressed with Dr. Rich.

 

[Moozillion]

Shame Bea. Hang in there. You have been making the right calls so far about Jacques, so don't doubt yourself.

Thank you, Carol.
It was tough to leave her there today, but it's clear she's not out of the woods yet, so we do what we must.

 

[KevinGG]

Hope everything goes well with Jacques. You’re a good owner.

 

[MrMarg&me]

Wow this is very difficult. Jacques has the best possible chance of beating whatever it is that is causing her illness. I understand how lonely you must be for her. Thank you for making the effort to continue your updates.

 

[CarolM]

Thank you, Carol.
It was tough to leave her there today, but it's clear she's not out of the woods yet, so we do what we must.

That is the only thing you can do.

 

[mark1]

caring is a big deal in a vet ... met a few incompetent ones over the years , but I've never met a bad one that cared ............ you've done everything you can for her , i'm betting Jacques recovers , she looks like she got a lot of life left in her .....

 

[Moozillion]

Hope everything goes well with Jacques. You’re a good owner.

Thank you, Kevin![emoji2][emoji173]️

 

[Moozillion]

Wow this is very difficult. Jacques has the best possible chance of beating whatever it is that is causing her illness. I understand how lonely you must be for her. Thank you for making the effort to continue your updates.

Thank you, MissMarg&me[emoji2][emoji173]️

 

[Moozillion]

caring is a big deal in a vet ... met a few incompetent ones over the years , but I've never met a bad one that cared ............ you've done everything you can for her , i'm betting Jacques recovers , she looks like she got a lot of life left in her .....

Thank you, mark! [emoji2][emoji173]️

 

[MrMarg&me]

Dearest Mooz, I have had you and Jacques on my mind. I hope things are still going okay. Jennifer

 

[KarenSoCal]

I think this is my 1st comment on this thread, but I've been following. I'm also concerned about Jacques and hoping all is going well! Moozillion, whatever's happening, know we are with you in spirit, and praying for your dear turtle!

 

[Moozillion]

Thank you so much, MissMarg&me and KarenSoCal!!! [emoji2][emoji173]️

She is still at the specialist hospital, but is doing well with her treatments. The turtle specialists at the vet school told our vet that they treat post-drowning aspiration pneumonia very aggressively: 3-4 weeks of daily antibiotic injections (Baytril) PLUS daily nebulizer treatments with another antibiotic (amikacin - not sure of the spelling). She has been getting this new treatment for about 2 and 1/2 weeks, and is “bright, alert and active”![emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

I initiated a heart-to-heart talk with the specialist about her prognosis, since the first treatment had not cured the infection. He said her prognosis is “good” and the odds for her full recovery “are in the 90 percents”! [emoji2][emoji106]
Apparently aquatic turtle lungs close off little pockets very easily. This is great if you’ve inhaled SOME water and need to close and protect as much lung as you can. But it also makes it very easy for any one of those pockets that’s gotten water in it to retain that water and develop infections from the germs in it. At least that’s what I got from our discussion.

They’ll take another blood count Friday, and depending on those results will decide how much longer to give the treatments.

THANK YOU again, for your love and concern!!!!!!!
[emoji2][emoji173]️[emoji2][emoji173]️[emoji2][emoji173]️[emoji2][emoji173]️

 

[Moozillion]

It’s difficult for me to be on the forum much right now, with Jacques away at the hospital. Also got a few other things going on.

But I love this forum and all the members- you are a big part of my life.
I am very grateful for all of you. [emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️

 

[JoesMum]

It’s difficult for me to be on the forum much right now, with Jacques away at the hospital. Also got a few other things going on.

But I love this forum and all the members- you are a big part of my life.
I am very grateful for all of you. [emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️

You know where we are when you need us Bea. I still have everything crossed for you and Jacques x

 

[Moozillion]

You know where we are when you need us Bea. I still have everything crossed for you and Jacques x

THanks so much, Linda!!!!

 

[MrMarg&me]

Thank you for taking the time to post an update on Jacques. I was relieved to read she is doing so well.