PayPal Friends/Family

deadheadvet

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This is a pin topic in the For Sale section. It was posted by one of the moderators. This is what she said.
"If you are purchasing a tortoise using Paypal or any other program, be aware if you mark it as a payment to a friend or family you may not be able to get your money back or file a claim of fraud. Protect yourself. Things such as scams do happen, even in here."

This pin should be removed because it only serves one side of a transaction and provides no protection to the seller from the same scam mentioned above. As a seller who accepts Paypal, the only safety we have is to take payment to family/friends so the buyer can not file a claim for refund after the tortoise(s) have been shipped. The advice should be rewritten as a discussion of the benefits to each side instead of don't pay via PayPal family or friend. I have stopped accepting PayPal unless family/friend option for this reason. Buyer should know who they are dealing with always and then not be afraid to pay by the above mentioned option.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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I'm sorry you feel this way . But are you family or friend , then let's keep it true .
 

deadheadvet

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It's a lose lose for the seller who is not a scam artist. If you accept regular Paypal, there are some steep fees when dealing with high end stuff to the seller.
Strictly speaking from the position of seller, we will not take PayPal any other way. There are too many threads of the seller being ripped off. I totally understand from the buyer's perspective. If you don't trust the seller, than do business with someone else. We mostly accept certified check and ship when the check clears. It's not how it used to be when everything was face to face cash transaction. The internet is a double edged sword for all parties.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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We have young people here and it's best to do things the right way and with the golden rule in mind . Pay pal offers a service and it's right to pay for that service . But many people try to round the corners ( or short cuts ) but it don't make it right .
 

Turtlepete

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Yeah, sellers get scammed just as much IF NOT MORE then the buyer. I've conducted a lot of sales through PayPal, and its all too easy for the buyer to completely rip you off. I completely agree with what you are saying. If you don't fully trust the person you are purchasing from, then you shouldn't be purchasing from them to begin with.
 

naturalman91

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Yeah, sellers get scammed just as much IF NOT MORE then the buyer. I've conducted a lot of sales through PayPal, and its all too easy for the buyer to completely rip you off. I completely agree with what you are saying. If you don't fully trust the person you are purchasing from, then you shouldn't be purchasing from them to begin with.

ripped off by the buyer how so? im truly curious is there a way they can "fake" send you the money or something?

i used family/friend when i bought my tort and it was alright but i also spent time talking to the seller and others about the seller until i was comfortable
 

dmmj

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ripped off by the buyer how so? im truly curious is there a way they can "fake" send you the money or something?

i used family/friend when i bought my tort and it was alright but i also spent time talking to the seller and others about the seller until i was comfortable
PayPal is buyer oriented all they have to do is file a claim against you and you lose the money no questions asked
 

jaizei

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ripped off by the buyer how so? im truly curious is there a way they can "fake" send you the money or something?

i used family/friend when i bought my tort and it was alright but i also spent time talking to the seller and others about the seller until i was comfortable

With Paypal, they file a dispute. Paypal is very buyer friendly.
 

deadheadvet

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All above are exactly correct. So for example, I sell a Radiated Tortoise to Jazie. Payment is made via regular Paypal. I ship the tortoise and it is received perfectly healthy. Then the next day Jaizei contacts paypal about her credit card being compromised or claims the item received was damaged, dead, etc. Paypal will issue a refund to the buyer and the seller is s.o.l. If payment made by Paypal friend or family, the funds are paid via the checking account connected with the Paypal buyer. If there is a problem, PayPal will side with the seller under these circumstances.
As Pete said above, Have very good communication with the seller, via phone calls, e-mail, text what have you. When you are sure you are dealing with a responsible seller, pull the trigger on the deal. I am currently in the process of selling a couple of Rads to two different people, I have spoken to both parties twice and replied to at least a dozen texts and e-mails. I want to make sure the buyer is comfortable with their purchases. These are high dollar animals and I want to make sure they are ok with what they are getting.
 

Turtlepete

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ripped off by the buyer how so? im truly curious is there a way they can "fake" send you the money or something?

i used family/friend when i bought my tort and it was alright but i also spent time talking to the seller and others about the seller until i was comfortable

As stated above, PayPal's entire business model is buyer oriented. This is an awesome thing as its expanded online markets in a way nobody could've dreamed of 8 years ago. It still has its setbacks. As a seller, you have to bend over backwards and perhaps perform some lewd acts as well to make the buyer happy. If they don't like the way the friggin package smells they can file a dispute and get their money back. It's a little more involved then simply saying "I want my money back", and when dealing with physical and inanimate products PayPal ensures the buyer returns the item back to you, but when doing this with live animals it complicates the matter a bit.

You did it right. You spoke with the seller extensively until you were comfortable with the transaction. I would NEVER buy a live animal over the internet from anyone I did not trust fully. And any seller should be more than willing to discuss the transaction with you extensively, before and after it is complete.
 

TerrapinStation

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I agree about Paypal being very buyer oriented. That is why I prefer using Paypal to check out at any online retailer that accepts it, and try to only use online retailers that accept it. It provides a great safety net in a scam filled world, and I would never take advantage of said safety net.

On the other hand, for situations such as buying things through forums, especially hobby enthusiasts, I prefer to take fellow members at their word and use the friends and family. Especially established members with high ratings, longevity, and dedication. I am a member on 3 forums (Torts, motorcycles, kayaks) and have successfully bought on all 3 and sold on 1 many times and have had no issues. I like to think these places are populated by good people with shared common interests.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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I've used PayPal since it first started. I have never had any sort of a problem. In fact I got screwed by EBay and PayPal fought them and won for me. I like PayPal and will always use them if I have the choice....
 

Turtlepete

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I've used PayPal since it first started. I have never had any sort of a problem. In fact I got screwed by EBay and PayPal fought them and won for me. I like PayPal and will always use them if I have the choice....

eBay is one of the worst companies you can do business with. I say this as a buyer AND as seller. Downright worst company I've ever dealt with. Some of what they've done is flat out illegal, but there is little you can do against a giant like eBay.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Yeah, I'm not so worried about a billion dollar company getting screwed out of 3% on a $7.00 transaction. I have seen and experienced the buyer retrieving $$ after they receive the goods, and now I have hours, genuinely hours, of 'negotiating' with the buyer and/or PayPal to get $7.00 back all for being cool about a 3% surcharge. I don't ph ucking think so.

Someone taking the funds back after they get the goods is the electronic equivalent of writing bad checks. Often the buyer is counting on you not putting the effort into going through the hassle all for $7.00.

I tell people if they think I have done them wrong write it up here or one of the many BOI in the realm of herp people doing business.

The 3% surcharge is for BTB for the most part, not hobbyists fooling around with tortoise sales.

I don't do much on eBay. I bought somethings there and was mostly disappointed with the follow-through of the seller.

Everything is buyer/seller beware.
 

dmmj

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I don't like losing money on fraudulent transactions what's worse is ebay now sorry PayPal charges me $20 for every disputed claim
 

deadheadvet

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If you are interested, go to the Fauna classifieds website and click on the board of inquiries and see the number of sellers ripped off via PayPal.
 

naturalman91

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As stated above, PayPal's entire business model is buyer oriented. This is an awesome thing as its expanded online markets in a way nobody could've dreamed of 8 years ago. It still has its setbacks. As a seller, you have to bend over backwards and perhaps perform some lewd acts as well to make the buyer happy. If they don't like the way the friggin package smells they can file a dispute and get their money back. It's a little more involved then simply saying "I want my money back", and when dealing with physical and inanimate products PayPal ensures the buyer returns the item back to you, but when doing this with live animals it complicates the matter a bit.

You did it right. You spoke with the seller extensively until you were comfortable with the transaction. I would NEVER buy a live animal over the internet from anyone I did not trust fully. And any seller should be more than willing to discuss the transaction with you extensively, before and after it is complete.

dang i didn't even know they did that. wow. thanks.
 

MPRC

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I process all of my transactions through Square because I have had a few headaches with Paypal as the SELLER, never any issues as a buyer though.

Once a few years ago I had a clients b!tch and moan until I agreed to take their paypal payment instead of them handing me a credit card to run through my reader or handing me a check there in person.

When they got their statement at the end of the month they "didn't recognize" the name "LaDuke Photography" (despite the fact that I had just photographed their wedding and at a steep discount because I am a sucker for a sob story). They disputed it with Paypal and were instantly given their money back out of MY pocket. After they dodged a ton of calls from me I showed up on their porch to ask "what gives?" and they told me it was their elderly mother's card and that I needed to talk to her. I contacted paypal and told them my side of things and they credited me back. Then the client disputed it again, but I had already cashed out the money because I feared it would happen again. In the end I got paid AND the client didn't pay anything because they got credited back. They STILL haven't ordered any prints, but at least they didn't leave me a bad review for the mess that resulted from it.

The moral of this story is that if you are stubborn and persistent Paypal will pay you off to make you go away.
 

Pokeymeg

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I've actually never had great success as a buyer via PayPal when opening a dispute. I've never gotten my money back 'just like that'. I've opened 3 disputes in all my PayPal history, all legitimate in that I paid for an item and didn't receive it and the seller refused to respond after 1-2 weeks and many attempts. I use the dispute feature to force a response. I'm not looking to get my money back, I just want answers. Maybe it's different because I didn't receive the item vs. it being 'damaged', but PayPal made me wait a very long time before they'd consider refunding me (like, 3-4 weeks). In all 3 cases, the seller eventually responded to the dispute and sent my item.

I'm also an online seller (Etsy), so I understand how nutty & stupid customers can be, but thankfully (knock on wood) have never had the displeasure of selling with a customer dispute. I don't use the friend/family feature.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I process all of my transactions through Square because I have had a few headaches with Paypal as the SELLER, never any issues as a buyer though.

Once a few years ago I had a clients b!tch and moan until I agreed to take their paypal payment instead of them handing me a credit card to run through my reader or handing me a check there in person.

When they got their statement at the end of the month they "didn't recognize" the name "LaDuke Photography" (despite the fact that I had just photographed their wedding and at a steep discount because I am a sucker for a sob story). They disputed it with Paypal and were instantly given their money back out of MY pocket. After they dodged a ton of calls from me I showed up on their porch to ask "what gives?" and they told me it was their elderly mother's card and that I needed to talk to her. I contacted paypal and told them my side of things and they credited me back. Then the client disputed it again, but I had already cashed out the money because I feared it would happen again. In the end I got paid AND the client didn't pay anything because they got credited back. They STILL haven't ordered any prints, but at least they didn't leave me a bad review for the mess that resulted from it.

The moral of this story is that if you are stubborn and persistent Paypal will pay you off to make you go away.
So, you earned your money twice, once as a professional photographer and once as a litigator. I would suspect the amount was worth having to earn it a second time. The smaller amount of $$ with tortoises would tend to pish someone off, but not compel them for all that second earning of the $$.

That's the rub. I don't have time to earn one dollar twice.
 
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