Pet store sulcata, how's its shell?

[Peter Williams]

just a quick video I shot after putting it in its new home, what do you guys think? I'll try to post a picture later today with it next to a ruler so you guys can guess how old it is for me, the store didn't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X55a-O3fsU&

 

[twtraudio]

If you could get a measurement of the plastron on a flat ruler and we can give ya a pretty close estimate. From what i see eight now i would say 1 year.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

She's already pyramided pretty good for such a small tortoise and I would say that the shape of her carapace says that she probably has MBD. I'd get her on a good soft substrate and keep the humidity at 70 to 80% for a while. I'd put a cuttlebone in with her and put powdered calcium on her food daily for awhile. If it were me I'd be getting some Calcionate from the Vet and using that on her. I know you didn't ask for advice...but that has never stopped me...

 

[Peter Williams]

She's already pyramided pretty good for such a small tortoise and I would say that the shape of her carapace says that she probably has MBD. I'd get her on a good soft substrate and keep the humidity at 70 to 80% for a while. I'd put a cuttlebone in with her and put powdered calcium on her food daily for awhile. If it were me I'd be getting some Calcionate from the Vet and using that on her. I know you didn't ask for advice...but that has never stopped me...

Jesus christ. How serious is MBD and what about the shape of her carapace leads you to believe that? And one thing that I've been wondering, is pyramiding reversable with proper diet? I'm soaking her every day for about 15 minutes, should her substrate be moist to the touch? And I am putting calcium on her food as well.

 

[Meg90]

pyramiding is not reversable. The best you can hope for now is to stop the process so that it doesn't get any worse.

Did the petstore say what they were feeding him? How often he was supplemented? Anything??

Does she drink when you soak her? What's her weight and length? (you want to measure the bottom of her shell in a straight line, not the curved top)

 

[aluras]

looks like yo have some pyraming starting. check out sulcatastation.org they have alot of really great info.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

She's already pyramided pretty good for such a small tortoise and I would say that the shape of her carapace says that she probably has MBD. I'd get her on a good soft substrate and keep the humidity at 70 to 80% for a while. I'd put a cuttlebone in with her and put powdered calcium on her food daily for awhile. If it were me I'd be getting some Calcionate from the Vet and using that on her. I know you didn't ask for advice...but that has never stopped me...

Jesus christ. How serious is MBD and what about the shape of her carapace leads you to believe that? And one thing that I've been wondering, is pyramiding reversable with proper diet? I'm soaking her every day for about 15 minutes, should her substrate be moist to the touch? And I am putting calcium on her food as well.

I'm sorry...didn't mean to cause any turmoil.
Metabolic bone disease (MBD) is a well recognized and all too common disease of reptiles. Other terms which may be used include fibrous osteodystrophy, osteomalacia, secondary nutritional hyperparathyroidism, osteoporosis, and rickets. There is no single cause and the disease is not as simple a calcium deficiency. However, the primary problem is a disruption of calcium metabolism which causes a host of related problems. MBD is almost always a result of poor husbandry, but generally preventable by providing a proper environment and diet. This is not always easy or inexpensive, but is vital to the health of pet reptiles.

I copied that cuz it would have been too much typing for me.
If you keep her under conditions that we recommend here the pyramiding will stop. She/he will always have the bumps but they won't get any worse.
I said MBD because of the way her carapace looks right under the scutes and above the bridge However, I am not a Vet or a Vet tech, I just have some experience. I would suggest she be taken to a Vet and be checked for parasites and get some Calcionate.
No matter what damage has been done at such a young age you can stop and correct the damage by your husbandry. The substrate should be moist and that will create humidity at the substrate level which is where you want it. When you pick up a handful of the substrate and squeeze it it should hold that shape.
So now her future is up to you. She needs the best UVB bulb you can get, she needs to be put on a good diet, she needs humidity and lots of exercise.
Here's a couple of links to the best (IMHO) care sheets. You can read up on your tort and see what you have to do now.
I am wondering what substrate you have her on, is it just dirt?

http://africantortoise.com/
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/sulcatacare.htm

 

[Peter Williams]

The substrate is a mix of bed-a-beast and play sand. In her enclosure I have:

A hide box on the cool side
A water dish (cut off bottom of a 16oz deli cup)
A food dish (cut off bottom of a 16oz deli cup)
A clamp lamp with a 160W MVB, high enough off the surface that it gets it to between 90F and 95F during the day, for 12 hours
A clamp lamp with a 50W red night bulb that keeps the surface between 75F and 80F at night
3 slate rocks directly under the heat lamps

I am feeding her chopped up romaine and collards, washed and sprinked with calcium and herptivite, and mazuri tortoise food, with some water added to soften it up.

How does this sound?

 

[Laura]

She needs a better diet. Weeds or spring mix salad like you get at the store or costco in bags or containers.. it has much better nutritional value then romaine. grazing is what she needs to do, and she need to be outside as much as possible. real sun is best. Of course when she gets bigger.. you will need an outdoor pen. If she is bad health wise, she may not grow as fast as a good healthy one.. hopefully she will live. I did not see her picture yet, i have two with bad to severe pyrimyding.. and doing ok. pics on here somewhere!

 

[Peter Williams]

She needs a better diet. Weeds or spring mix salad like you get at the store or costco in bags or containers.. it has much better nutritional value then romaine. grazing is what she needs to do, and she need to be outside as much as possible. real sun is best. Of course when she gets bigger.. you will need an outdoor pen. If she is bad health wise, she may not grow as fast as a good healthy one.. hopefully she will live. I did not see her picture yet, i have two with bad to severe pyrimyding.. and doing ok. pics on here somewhere!

Ok, I will move to spring mix. Real sun isn't an option under its over -30C outside. And I did not post a picture, in my original post I posted a link to a youtube video.

 

[Laura]

I just looked at your video. Mine are MUCH worse and doing ok. If you get her outside into natural sunlite, weather permitting and a good diet, she should do ok.
Read read read.. the sulcata section here and look for the links given for diet and such. I cant tell in your video.. but she will need a hide in her enclosure. They burrow in the wild and need that to feel safe and not stressed. cardboard box works fine and you can make it moist in there with extra substrate or damp moss for her to burrow into. They grow very large and need lots of roaming area. 40x40 feet out on pasture is best. When they are big..

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-30.. brrrrrrrrrrr ok.. time to plan for what you are going to do when she is an adult or on her way to be.. I have 4. 10years at 60 pounds, 7 years at 30 pounds 5 years at about 10 pounds and one i dont know age.. but about 3 pound? havent weighed her in a while..
They dont hibernate, so they need minimum of 65' year round. better at 75' or more.. it can be done in -30, but its going to cost you electricty bills and a large shed or room to keep her healthy and 'happy'.

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ahhh peter.. I knew your name sound familiar.. Canada with the greenhouse for when she gets bigger.. never mind prior post.. you already know your plan! still like to see pics of that..

 

[Maggie Cummings]

The substrate is a mix of bed-a-beast and play sand. In her enclosure I have:

A hide box on the cool side
A water dish (cut off bottom of a 16oz deli cup)
A food dish (cut off bottom of a 16oz deli cup)
A clamp lamp with a 160W MVB, high enough off the surface that it gets it to between 90F and 95F during the day, for 12 hours
A clamp lamp with a 50W red night bulb that keeps the surface between 75F and 80F at night
3 slate rocks directly under the heat lamps

I am feeding her chopped up romaine and collards, washed and sprinked with calcium and herptivite, and mazuri tortoise food, with some water added to soften it up.

How does this sound?

You need a better diet. Laura recommended Spring Mix and I agree with that. Then I take a step further and add collards, dandelion, endive and other greens that are in season.
I believe in putting the hide towards the hot side, I don't let my babies get too cool.

 

[Peter Williams]

Ok, I'm trying to figure out exactly what and how much to feed my new sulcata every day. I want to feed a mixture of spring mix, mazuri tortoise diet, and timothy hay. Can anyone lay out a nice schedule for me? Like what to feed each day of the week, how much to feed, and what sort of calcium/herptivite supplementation I should be doing.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Peter: I'm so glad you were able to find an older baby. You are going to have much better luck with this tortoise than if you had bought a hatchling. From the size I would estimate maybe one or two years old. If you buy the different greens and Spring Mix, you can feed it all to the baby every day. I would cut up the hay in very tiny bite-sized pieces, because babies don't seem to go for hay until they get to be 3 or 4 years old. Moisten the greens and sprinkle a pinch of hay over the top. I feed moistened mazuri once a week, but if your baby likes it and will eat it, there's nothing wrong with feeding it to him 3 or 4 times a week. Feed him once a day, all he will eat. Its good if there is still some food left when he's finished eating. I leave the food in there and later in the day mine go back and eat some more. Because its hot in there, the food is usually dried and slightly crisp when they go back, but still edible. Congrats on your little sulcata. Have you given it a name yet?

Yvonne

 

[DuttonWebb]

pyramiding is not reversable. The best you can hope for now is to stop the process so that it doesn't get any worse.

Did the petstore say what they were feeding him? How often he was supplemented? Anything??

Does she drink when you soak her? What's her weight and length? (you want to measure the bottom of her shell in a straight line, not the curved top)

Pyramiding isnt reversable, but on such a young tortoise, if the diet was changed wouldnt the shell mostly flatten out by the time the tortoise got very large?

 

[Laura]

It depends on how bad the damage is, and how the care is after the fact. Even a large tort will show the damage later on, even with good growth.

 

[Millerlite]

With your tortoise the pyramiding isnt to bad, he also fairly small and with proper diet and care you can get him growing the right way and smooth him out, there will be a little bit in the future but it wont be super bad. Everyone pretty much hit the main points. I would add soaking him every other day or 2x and week just so he doesnt get dehydrated, dehydration tends to creep up on young tortoises so soaking them is always good. From the video he looks alert and pretty good, i think he will be a great tortoise.