PETA & The HSUS

[t_mclellan]

I'm starting a new thread so the comment that luvthemtorts made about PETA & the HSUS dose not hijack the "Wagging" thread in "Redfoot & Yellowfoot Friends".
That means I'm NOT talking about animal emotion here. (But I side with people like Luvthemtorts!)

I believe that we all need to keep a close eye on organizations like PETA & the HSUS.
There first agenda is to eliminate animal ownership by the public.
PETA would like you to believe that they have the animals best interest at hart!
I call B@% S#@!&!!! PETA the organization that spends 100's of thousands of $$ annually buying Dog's (Pit bull) & Roosters (Game ****) only to euthanize them!
They say its so they (the animals) don't die fighting! The rest of there $$ goes to Board members / Directors & Attorneys! I read this in the NY Post & Miami Herald Back in the 90's.
The HSUS is another winner! They ask for $$ to save animals & again I call
B@% S#@!%!! Not 1 dollar goes to ANY animal shelter or rehabber! All there $$ goes to Board members / Directors & Attorneys! They are solely a Lobbying organization.
They are NOT affiliated with the "American Humane Society"! They give NO $$ to ANY organization that helps animals! They lobby for almost every bill that restricts your Civil Liberties! That's because the end goal is to PAROHIBIT ALL ANIMAL OWNERSHIP & EXIBITS!

OK I'll get off the box now! WHO"S NEXT!

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I am not familiar with HSUS. I googled their web site to see if I could find a disclosure as to how much of their budget goes to administrative overhead, as that is usually a good indicator of whether they are a charity or merely a money-maker for their "staff". No disclosure--bad sign.

I looked on a list of Non-profit organizations and HSUS was not listed--bad sign.

Looked for a contact form to ask what percentage of their budget was dedicated to actual animal programs, and the site "couldn't locate the page"--bad sign!

Posted the following on their blog, in hopes of finding out some details about their budget priorities:

"Read on another forum that your organization spends the vast majority of donation money for administrative expenses and not for programs that shelter/rehab animals.
Cannot find HSUS on a non-profit organization list.
What percentage of your budget goes to administrative costs?"

If I get any response, I'll post it.

Somewhere there is a list you can access by internet that discloses this information for non-profit organizations, so you can decide if they are worthy of your donation. Of course, if HSUS is not a non-profit, that says a lot about the organization's priorities right there.

 

[Rhyno47]

I think South Park got it right on their PETA episode. Animals are not people. Any emotion we have is vastly different for an animal or non existent. I'm against animal cruelty with all my heart but animals die. Its a way of life. And when you start to view animals as little people that have emotions like empathy and sorrow you are on a slippery slope to anger and unhappiness.

 

[Kayti]

I agree with 99% of what you're saying, except I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that both of these organizations are primarily lobbying organizations. PETA in particular is a group I have had a long love-hate relationship with; they have a lot of really really stupid campaigns and a few weird ideas, but they do have a lot of political power, and they have accomplished a lot of good with it. If PETA calls out your business practices, you have to listen. For example, the company POM that makes pomegranate juice was doing a lot of unnecessary and incredibly cruel animal testing to try and prove that their juice cured heart disease or something like that. But PETA started a campaign to make people aware of it, and POM had to clean up its act real fast- and they did. PETA is also responsible for a lot for the few laws we have now regulating conditions for farm animals.

That said, their stance on animals as pets is very strange to me. Without pets, how would animal lovers be created in the first place? I'm not sure if I would have decided to be vegan if my only experience with animals was through the Discovery Channel. Not to mention the fact that deciding that 'owning a pet is immoral' alienates at least 90% of animal lovers.

There are much better AR organizations...

 

[dmmj]

for every so called good thing PETA does you have their recent " rename fish sea kittens so kids can be scared into not eating fish anymore because we are gonna equate them with kittens, and who wants to eat cuddly kittens?" I obviously paraphrased the above PETA campaign. PETA may have started out as a good org. but when they advocate no animal owenrship what so ever no zoos, no circus, no animal testing period, and no animal eating period, you have joined the fringe and should be carefully watched IMHO. Plus they are hypocrites don't they kill tens of thousands of animals themselves, for dubious reasons?

 

[Shelly]

don't they kill tens of thousands of animals themselves?

Explain please...

 

[Kayti]

don't they kill tens of thousands of animals themselves?

Explain please...

They do euthanize animals from situations like **** fighting or dog fighting, but those animals are generally not suitable as pets in most situations, at least not without extensive rehabilitation.
And I know there was a smear campaign from this stupid specifically anti-peta organization, but that was years ago and I believe those allegations were proved false.

 

[Shelly]

They do euthanize animals from situations like **** fighting or dog fighting,
[/quote]

How does PETA come into possession of "tens of thousands" of fighting dogs and roosters?

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

PETA is pretty harmless guys. I don't know anything about HSUS. But all PETA does is premote vegan/vegetarianism, produce nude pictures of people (like Pamela Anderson) for their don't wear fur campaign, and have Alec Baldwin narrate short films on animal abuse in cosmetic testing... And you do know that a lot of time they remove the lips of fighting dogs so their teeth protrude more so they look scarier? I'm not kidding. Not to mention when they are usually recovered they are badly injured or too mad to be pets. Plus the authorities unthinize them, not PETA. You are giving PETA too much credit, I think its funny how paranoid people are about PETA. So if narrated films, free booklets on how to eat healthy as a vegetarian, and nude calendars are the worst thing done to my per ownership rights I think we are safe. I think legislatures take PETA with a huge grain of salt. We aren't dealing with the Weather Underground Organization here. I'm only defending them because I've been hearing this mumbo jumbo for all my life and nothing has come of it.

---

PS When I refer to the Weather Underground I am not talking about the online weather prediction website.

PPS Its all scare campaigns everyone (both ways)... That is all it is...

 

[dmmj]

I have revised my original number of tens of thousand a year to 2000 a year, I don't fear them but I do believe they are a bunch of whack jobs, no insult intended to any PETA memebers, nude calendars of pam withstanding.

 

[Madkins007]

The main planks of PETA are (from their website):
1. Animals Are Not Ours to Eat
2. Animals Are Not Ours to Wear
3. Animals Are Not Ours to Experiment On
4. Animals Are Not Ours to Use for Entertainment
5. Animals Are Not Ours to Abuse in Any Way

I really don't understand these points in many ways. For one thing, the whole idea of animals having rights without some form of attendant responsibilities seems odd. Where did the rights come from?

1. It is OK for animals to eat animals, but not for us? How does it happen that animals have a specific right to not be eaten by a specific animal (Homo sapiens)? There are good reasons for vegetarian lifestyles, but some idea that prey animals somehow deserve to not be eaten is just plain foolish in my opinion.

2. Would relate to #1. If we can eat them, we can certainly use every part of them to avoid waste. I disagree with the idea of fur farms, but have no problem with using inedible materials of food animals.

3. Some of the board members of PETA are diabetic or have other conditions that the cures for involve animals in the testing or production. They are on record as feeling that this policy does not apply to them for some reason or another. While I am not fond of the type of testing, I want to be DANG sure that a medicine that my wife or children use is safe and effective on humans. (Cleaners, cosmetics, etc. being tested this way really should stop and be made with safer ingredients in the first place.)

4. This is a rather blanket statement that includes pets, circuses, zoos, etc. Some horrible things have been done to animals in the name of the greater good or for the money, but there are a lot of things about pets, zoos, etc. that work in favor of animals. We will not care about or protect what we do not understand. Animals in entertainment areas accomplish this and more.

5. "In any way" is a scary statement since it is so open ended. It smacks of fanatic thinking, making issues black and white with them being the judge. Keeping honeybees does not count under 1-4, but would be considered abuse by PETA under this claim. Feeding birds could be considered abuse as it changes their behaviors. Even a scarecrow could be considered abusive.

I'm sorry, but to me PETA is close to a terrorist organization. They support eco-terrorism with money and verbal support, they use scare tactics and strong-arm tactics against kids, etc. They are not much different than the over-the-top anti-abortion groups that throw blood and scream at pregnant women.

PETA DOES euthanize animals- by the thousands. They run shelters which are on record as having higher kill rates than other shelters in their areas, etc. They argue that they get more unwanted animals than the other shelters, but this whole element seems out of whack to the rest of their teachings- they feel it is OK to release hundreds of caged animals into non-native areas where they cause lots of havoc in well-publicized releases (not necessarily officially PETA activities, but done by their people or people they support with money and verbally), but then kill otherwise healthy but unwanted animals? Isn't this the kind of fuzzy logic we often see with fanatical 'true believers'?

PETA has done some good- but other, less fanatic groups were working on the same issues. The Japanese mafia helped Japanese disaster victims out in several recent events- does this redeem them?

 

[-EJ]

I didn't even have to read any of the responses to realize that if there was ever a candidate for the Debatable Topic section... this is the poster child.

 

[Kayti]

I didn't even have to read any of the responses to realize that if there was ever a candidate for the Debatable Topic section... this is the poster child.

For once I agree with EJ

 

[terryo]

I really don't understand any of this. People say they love their reptiles...tortoises, boxies, beardies...etc. What if someone were to take one of your animals and tie it down on a table and start opening it's brain to see what it was made of...or breaking it's leg only to fix it again, break it again, fix it again.....on and on.... Would it upset you? I have rescued a Beagle who this was done to. Each time they took her to break her leg, she wagged her tail. You would cry if you saw her limp her whole life.
Would you like to see a video of a chimp tied down to a table in an experiment lab while two idiot technicians are sticking things in it's eye balls, saying...wow that must hurt...ha ha ...look he knows it coming....I owned a monkey for many years, and they are just like children in many ways.
Not a pretty site. I have seen many of these tapes. They are not fabricated...they are real....horror of horrors....rabbits....many of you have pet rabbits, don't you??? stuffed in a box with a hole to stick it's head in...putting fluid in it's eye to see if a certain eye makeup will give a bad reaction, or putting some kind of acid on it's body.....NO pain killers. I have seen many tapes like this too.
What about the people here who have pet rats...ever seen any of those tapes? More horrors.
Yes I belong to PETA. They are a radical bunch who risk going to jail, paying fines, etc.....to save these animals. And they have saved many. I knew people who used money out of their own pocket...one mortgaged his house ....to fund these rescues.
Ever see an Elephant on a short chain....swaying back and forth...unable to move...then brought into a circus and poked with a sharp point and made to do tricks for our kids enjoyment? more horrors.....None of my 5 sons, would ever think of taking their children to one of these circuses. They have been hearing me since they could remember, about the cruelty of these circuses.
How can anyone condemn someone who is trying to save these poor animals?
OK...sometimes they go over board.....every hear of asking for a hundred dollars...knowing you will only get $25, and only expecting that much. It is the same concept.
Believe me...they do much more good then they do harm. Believe only so much of what you read and hear.....
How could anyone say they love their tortoise, and then look at these things and condone them?

1. Animals Are Not Ours to Eat
2. Animals Are Not Ours to Wear
3. Animals Are Not Ours to Experiment On
4. Animals Are Not Ours to Use for Entertainment
5. Animals Are Not Ours to Abuse in Any Way

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

Mohandas Gandhi

 

[-EJ]

I have a problem with people who put animals in front of people. These people are called radicals.

Think of the largest radical group in the world...

Sure there are bad people but lets put it in perspective. If a person does not have compassion or understanding for their fellow man... the animals don't mean a whole lot.

It seems the activists against those causes outside of humans seem to have an evil streak way worse than a kid torturing a cat...

When I see people willing to put aside their differences to better a relationship that will give me time to consider those injustaces outside of humanity but I'll be willing to bet that if that happened... I probably wouldn't have to worry about the latter part of that statement.

 

[Rhyno47]

So this is also for vegans. But, if you dont eat meat or animal products what do you feed your carnivorous pets?

 

[Candy]

I couldn't have put it better myself Terryo. People don't like organizations because of why? Peta does help animals and a lot. Yes they may be out there, but they have to be out there they're are fighting with your own government and others to protect animals. Of course they spend a lot on lawyers they have to to get anywhere. I have seen (actually just last week on the news) where they caught another college torturing animals in their labs. I don't know what use it is to us to torture a monkey by not giving it enough water so it will cooperate better. To make it beg for water is disgusting. I was just sick when I saw this (and of course they filmed it). It was Peta that set them up and thank God they do. We are a different generation and we don't think of our animals the way our parents or their parents used to, at least I don't. I do not want to see an animal tortured for my benefit (so they say).

 

[-EJ]

vacuume packed mice.

So this is also for vegans. But, if you dont eat meat or animal products what do you feed your carnivorous pets?

 

[Rhyno47]

Joking? lol

 

[Luvthemtorts]

Seeing as how my posts were deleted from the prior thread I'm not going to even participate in this one short of one question.
If or when these groups manage to outlaw the keeping of non native animals are you the supporters of these groups going to relinquish your animals?
I will forego my personal opinion in this issue but am curious how far you are willing to go to support at least one of these groups agendas.