Petco Rescue

[max.chang]

Hey all, new to the forum here. I'm a second year veterinary student doing an internship at an animal hospital in Connecticut. A month ago Petco brought two Russian tortoises in that were failing to thrive, had URIs as well. They surrendered the sicker one to us, the vet said it was unlikely to survive if it went back to Petco. I ended up volunteering to cover it's vet care and it's mine now. It is severely muscle wasted, seems chronically dehydrated, and just seems all around in a bad shape. I'm about to drive cross country next week and I'll bring him back to vet school with me.

We've really only learned about dogs and cats, and I've been a vet tech for three years, but I don't really know about tortoises, just companion animals, cattle, and sheep. I've had a red eared slider for 21 years and so I know just a little about chelonians, but not really about sick ones.

I really want this tortoise to survive. Definitely seems WC, his shell is super beat up. The other tortoise is was housed with was much more muscular and larger, I think it was keeping this one from eating.


We did two weeks of injectable antibiotics and fluids, but that ended a couple of weeks ago. He was doing better for awhile and the URI went away, but I'm still not convinced he's through the woods. I've been reading Tom's care sheets and a lot of other threads here, it seems like the hobbyists know way more than vets who are trained on mammals.

Anyways, he eats a little, but is so picky. Some days it's only crab grass, other days it's dandelions, and some days it's only romaine lettuce. Refuses carrots, kale, red lettuce, LS Mazuri. I try everything, I'm just so desperate to have him eat - he's emaciated and his eyes are so sunken in. I've been doing weekly soaks and he does drink some.

I guess it feels like a tossup on if he'll make it. Would love your advice, if you have any.

He's got an 8x3 temporary pen outside and I bring him indoors at night.

 

[Ink]

Do you soak him in warm shallow water in a tub with high sides so he can't climb out? If so add carrot baby food to the water. Welcome to the forum

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Bless you for taking this sweet fella in!it’s wonderful having a veterinary student here and would absolutely love for you to stick around!
You’re definitely correct in that most vets do not unfortunately understand how best to treat tortoises, they’re their own kettle of unique fish lol, there’s SO much outdated care advice out there and unfortunately for the most part, Vets are following that very outdated care. A lot of them offer vitamin injections as a quick fix, but they can actually do much more harm than good. I’m very glad you’ve made your way here! It’s 100% the best place to be for care advice.

Your outdoor enclosure sounds pretty good size wise! Generally 8x4 is considered the minimum but 8x3 is still a great size so wouldn’t worry too much there, if you’re able to give a little expansion one day though that would be nice. If you are in a climate that means this guy has to be housed indoors quite often? He could still do with a sizeable indoor space, if the for the most part your temps allow him to be housed outside, you can definitely get away with smaller indoors

As you’ve read the care sheets, you probably do know a lot of this already/have some of the equipment, but I tend to cover each and every aspect for any new members that might happen across the threads, hopefully you can find some of it helpful though, the right care and environment is hopefully going to go a long way in getting this guy to thrive for youas you already have a decent outdoor space, I’ll include information on an appropriate indoor set up

As adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthen their muscles, which sounds like this fella needs bless him.

I’m going to include some information below on an example of an appropriate indoor set up, it includes the correct levels and equipment etc, including the appropriate indoor uv

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. If in a warmer climate you likely won’t need these.

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them. If you’re guy is getting out for daily sun, you won’t need to worry about indoor uv

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic. Sand can irritate the eyes and be an impaction risk, moss is an impaction risk too.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better, but again if your fella is mainly outdoors, you’ll get away with a bit smaller

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! They can be professional escape artists

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the top of the torts shell(you probably don’t need the uv though)

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard. I’d replace the one in the outdoor enclosure if you can

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct, or for checking the outdoor ground temps in the enclosure

For the diet side of things, the perhaps you’ll find this website handy to look through, they can definitely be picky and stubborn when it comes to new foods, your guy has likely been used to the same stuff for a while so will naturally be stubborn, but don’t let that stop you from persevering and offering new foods, variety definitely helps their overall health.
Maybe you could buy seeds online and plant them in organic soil(free of fertilisers etc) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access, then forage as they grow

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Whilst he’s dehydrated, I’d recommend daily half hour soaks for the next two weeks or so if you can, it should really help.

I’ll also tag @wellington @Tom
And @Yvonne G for if there’s anything they think I’ve missed/you could do to help things in the meantime!

Wishing you all the best from the uk

 

[zovick]

Hey all, new to the forum here. I'm a second year veterinary student doing an internship at an animal hospital in Connecticut. A month ago Petco brought two Russian tortoises in that were failing to thrive, had URIs as well. They surrendered the sicker one to us, the vet said it was unlikely to survive if it went back to Petco. I ended up volunteering to cover it's vet care and it's mine now. It is severely muscle wasted, seems chronically dehydrated, and just seems all around in a bad shape. I'm about to drive cross country next week and I'll bring him back to vet school with me.

We've really only learned about dogs and cats, and I've been a vet tech for three years, but I don't really know about tortoises, just companion animals, cattle, and sheep. I've had a red eared slider for 21 years and so I know just a little about chelonians, but not really about sick ones.

I really want this tortoise to survive. Definitely seems WC, his shell is super beat up. The other tortoise is was housed with was much more muscular and larger, I think it was keeping this one from eating.


We did two weeks of injectable antibiotics and fluids, but that ended a couple of weeks ago. He was doing better for awhile and the URI went away, but I'm still not convinced he's through the woods. I've been reading Tom's care sheets and a lot of other threads here, it seems like the hobbyists know way more than vets who are trained on mammals.

Anyways, he eats a little, but is so picky. Some days it's only crab grass, other days it's dandelions, and some days it's only romaine lettuce. Refuses carrots, kale, red lettuce, LS Mazuri. I try everything, I'm just so desperate to have him eat - he's emaciated and his eyes are so sunken in. I've been doing weekly soaks and he does drink some.

I guess it feels like a tossup on if he'll make it. Would love your advice, if you have any.

He's got an 8x3 temporary pen outside and I bring him indoors at night.

Many, many tortoises do not eat the Mazuri LS. I would recommend trying the original formula Mazuri instead. Most tortoises really love that one. Soak a couple of pellets in lukewarm water for a few minutes and put them in front of the tortoise. Hopefully it will be eaten fairly quickly, but since the tortoise is not used to it as a food item, it may take a few days of doing this to get the the animal to try it.

I have found that tortoises will often eat after being removed from their daily soak, so take the tortoise out of its soak water and put it in front of a pile of food. This should work with or without the Mazuri pellets. If the tortoise does like them, you can crumble them up over other foods which may cause the other foods to be eaten as well.

FWIW, in the pictures your tortoise doesn't look as unhealthy as some others I have seen, so there may be hope for it to recover and be a healthy animal. Good luck with the project!

Where in CO will you be? Greeley, perhaps? I have lived in Colorado Springs and in Crested Butte at different times in my life.

 

[wellington]

Welcome. Please do daily long warm soaks with him. At least 30 minutes daily.
Be sure to get him into a proper sized enclosure for inside, 4x8 foot or if you can get him outside that would be better.
Even daily trips outside for natural sun would help.
My Russian won't eat any mazuri but the regular one is better to try, like said above, most don't like the LS
Feed riddichio, arugula, escarole, spring mix minus most of the spinach and romaine for added hydration help.

 

[max.chang]

Do you soak him in warm shallow water in a tub with high sides so he can't climb out? If so add carrot baby food to the water. Welcome to the forum

Welcome. Please do daily long warm soaks with him. At least 30 minutes daily.
Be sure to get him into a proper sized enclosure for inside, 4x8 foot or if you can get him outside that would be better.
Even daily trips outside for natural sun would help.
My Russian won't eat any mazuri but the regular one is better to try, like said above, most don't like the LS
Feed riddichio, arugula, escarole, spring mix minus most of the spinach and romaine for added hydration help.

Thanks for this advice! I've been doing the daily soaks, I actually added Fluker's Liquid Vitamin to the water as well, it's really dilute after being put in the bath but I think some is better than none, and I'd had to overdose.

Many, many tortoises do not eat the Mazuri LS. I would recommend trying the original formula Mazuri instead. Most tortoises really love that one. Soak a couple of pellets in lukewarm water for a few minutes and put them in front of the tortoise. Hopefully it will be eaten fairly quickly, but since the tortoise is not used to it as a food item, it may take a few days of doing this to get the the animal to try it.

I have found that tortoises will often eat after being removed from their daily soak, so take the tortoise out of its soak water and put it in front of a pile of food. This should work with or without the Mazuri pellets. If the tortoise does like them, you can crumble them up over other foods which may cause the other foods to be eaten as well.

FWIW, in the pictures your tortoise doesn't look as unhealthy as some others I have seen, so there may be hope for it to recover and be a healthy animal. Good luck with the project!

Where in CO will you be? Greeley, perhaps? I have lived in Colorado Springs and in Crested Butte at different times in my life.

Zovick - I'm actually a Washington State student! I'm from Utah though, and they have a regional program here where I stay in state for 2 years before going to WA.

Hello and welcome! Bless you for taking this sweet fella in!it’s wonderful having a veterinary student here and would absolutely love for you to stick around!
You’re definitely correct in that most vets do not unfortunately understand how best to treat tortoises, they’re their own kettle of unique fish lol, there’s SO much outdated care advice out there and unfortunately for the most part, Vets are following that very outdated care. A lot of them offer vitamin injections as a quick fix, but they can actually do much more harm than good. I’m very glad you’ve made your way here! It’s 100% the best place to be for care advice.

Your outdoor enclosure sounds pretty good size wise! Generally 8x4 is considered the minimum but 8x3 is still a great size so wouldn’t worry too much there, if you’re able to give a little expansion one day though that would be nice. If you are in a climate that means this guy has to be housed indoors quite often? He could still do with a sizeable indoor space, if the for the most part your temps allow him to be housed outside, you can definitely get away with smaller indoors

As you’ve read the care sheets, you probably do know a lot of this already/have some of the equipment, but I tend to cover each and every aspect for any new members that might happen across the threads, hopefully you can find some of it helpful though, the right care and environment is hopefully going to go a long way in getting this guy to thrive for youas you already have a decent outdoor space, I’ll include information on an appropriate indoor set up

As adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthen their muscles, which sounds like this fella needs bless him.

I’m going to include some information below on an example of an appropriate indoor set up, it includes the correct levels and equipment etc, including the appropriate indoor uv

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. If in a warmer climate you likely won’t need these.

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them. If you’re guy is getting out for daily sun, you won’t need to worry about indoor uv

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic. Sand can irritate the eyes and be an impaction risk, moss is an impaction risk too.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better, but again if your fella is mainly outdoors, you’ll get away with a bit smaller

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! They can be professional escape artists

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the top of the torts shell(you probably don’t need the uv though)

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard. I’d replace the one in the outdoor enclosure if you can

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct, or for checking the outdoor ground temps in the enclosure

For the diet side of things, the perhaps you’ll find this website handy to look through, they can definitely be picky and stubborn when it comes to new foods, your guy has likely been used to the same stuff for a while so will naturally be stubborn, but don’t let that stop you from persevering and offering new foods, variety definitely helps their overall health.
Maybe you could buy seeds online and plant them in organic soil(free of fertilisers etc) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access, then forage as they grow

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Whilst he’s dehydrated, I’d recommend daily half hour soaks for the next two weeks or so if you can, it should really help.

I’ll also tag @wellington @Tom
And @Yvonne G for if there’s anything they think I’ve missed/you could do to help things in the meantime!

Wishing you all the best from the uk

Thanks so much for the advice and the shopping list. I've purchased the remaining. Items that I need and should have a pretty good indoor enclosure together soon!

As an update for everyone - I made it across the country with tortoise in tow. He's doing much better, thanks to all of your advice! Hope the up and up continues! Here's a photo of him enjoying a salad of broadleaf plantain, crabgrass, and mallow.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for this advice! I've been doing the daily soaks, I actually added Fluker's Liquid Vitamin to the water as well, it's really dilute after being put in the bath but I think some is better than none, and I'd had to overdose.

Zovick - I'm actually a Washington State student! I'm from Utah though, and they have a regional program here where I stay in state for 2 years before going to WA.

Thanks so much for the advice and the shopping list. I've purchased the remaining. Items that I need and should have a pretty good indoor enclosure together soon!

As an update for everyone - I made it across the country with tortoise in tow. He's doing much better, thanks to all of your advice! Hope the up and up continues! Here's a photo of him enjoying a salad of broadleaf plantain, crabgrass, and mallow.

Thank you so much for the update

 

[wellington]

I don't know if anyone said this, but once you think he is normal, you can cut back on the soaks. Once a week or so.
As far as anyone knows, there is no education in vet school of tortoise care. Very little if any on vet medical care of a tortoise either.
Let us know if you do ever have any on actual tortoises and not just reptiles in general.

 

[TammyJ]

Thanks for taking him and caring so wonderfully for this very lucky little guy!

 

[Anastasia 22]

Hello!
Thank you for taking care of this adorable baby!