PetSmart's torts wild-caught?

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Hello,
I have been wondering whether my tortoise, whom I purchased from PetSmart, was wild-caught or captive bred. She was sold for $100, which I understand to be too cheap for captive bred torts. She was also over 4 or 5 inches when I got her. Since then, I have found many sources that say that PetSmart sells wild-caught torts. This upsets me, because I feel that it would be hard for me to provide Myrtle with the quality of life and the space to roam that she would have in the wild. What has been your experience with how PetSmart/PetCo acquire their torts? Also, is there any way to tell how old Myrtle was when I got her? I wish I had done more research before buying her!
Thanks so much for your replies and opinions.
~MyrtlesMum0131

 

[Tom]

The ones I have seen there appeared to be wild caught, but don't look at it so negatively.

Quality of life in the wild? What about starvation, wild weather extremes, untreated parasites and disease with no vet care, predation, dehydration, etc?

Life in the wild is no cake walk. Most of them die a horrible painful death and few survive long enough to even reproduce. Captive life ain't so bad when they are given decent care. Good food and clean water always available, protection from all the annual weather extremes, protection from predators, comfortable safe shelter with good temperatures offered year round, vet care for any illness or problem... Doesn't sound so bad to me.

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

The ones I have seen there appeared to be wild caught, but don't look at it so negatively.

Quality of life in the wild? What about starvation, wild weather extremes, untreated parasites and disease with no vet care, predation, dehydration, etc?

Life in the wild is no cake walk. Most of them die a horrible painful death and few survive long enough to even reproduce. Captive life ain't so bad when they are given decent care. Good food and clean water always available, protection from all the annual weather extremes, protection from predators, comfortable safe shelter with good temperatures offered year round, vet care for any illness or problem... Doesn't sound so bad to me.

I never thought about it that way...I guess what I'm responding to is the fact that up until now Myrtle has been in a pretty small enclosure and seemed unhappy with the lack of space. Now I'm building her an outside pen that is at least 10x as big which I'm guessing she will be MUCH happier in!
Thank you so much for your response! I realize I've been rather pessimistic....haha!

 

[Tom]

I never thought about it that way...I guess what I'm responding to is the fact that up until now Myrtle has been in a pretty small enclosure and seemed unhappy with the lack of space. Now I'm building her an outside pen that is at least 10x as big which I'm guessing she will be MUCH happier in!
Thank you so much for your response! I realize I've been rather pessimistic....haha!

Small enclosures can definitely be a downside to captive life, but that is pretty easily fixed, as it seems you are already doing. Nice!

I like 4x8' as a minimum indoors for adult russians and outside, the bigger the better. My outside juvenile enclosures are 7x24' with plans to go bigger in the works.

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Small enclosures can definitely be a downside to captive life, but that is pretty easily fixed, as it seems you are already doing. Nice!

I like 4x8' as a minimum indoors for adult russians and outside, the bigger the better. My outside juvenile enclosures are 7x24' with plans to go bigger in the works.

Thank you so much! I've heard that minimum quoted by others on this forum as well. Her current cage is two of the ZooMed tortoise houses put together, which equals 2'x6'. She seemed to be all right with it until she escaped for over a month. When she returned, she was NOT happy to be shoved back in prison! Her new enclosure is 8'x20' and should be completed next week . Your enclosures sound amazing and I would love to see pictures of them! I really appreciate all of this help as I am relatively new to tortoise keeping (3 or 4 years) and all of this is giving me great ideas.

 

[Tom]

Here ya go:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/

Here you can see how I started them when they were smaller too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Here ya go:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/heating-an-outdoor-russian-night-box.116180/

Here you can see how I started them when they were smaller too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

WOW! Those are incredible! I can only imagine all of the hard work and care you've put into them.

 

[Tom]

She seemed to be all right with it until she escaped for over a month. When she returned, she was NOT happy to be shoved back in prison!

Russians in the wild sometimes wander for miles. Confined spaces are one of the downsides to captive life, but In my view, the upsides outweigh it.

Perception is everything... I think it is cool that you are aware of, and considering your tortoises well-being, both mentally and physically. I do the same thing and it keeps me striving to make their lives with me as good as I can make them. I'm am constantly fiddling with little things here and there trying to improve their enclosures. I'm always trying to make a good thing better. Good for you, for trying to do your best too.

 

[dmmj]

Petsmart are wild caught, not matter what they say.

 

[Tom]

Hello,
I have been wondering whether my tortoise, whom I purchased from PetSmart, was wild-caught or captive bred. She was sold for $100, which I understand to be too cheap for captive bred torts. She was also over 4 or 5 inches when I got her. Since then, I have found many sources that say that PetSmart sells wild-caught torts. This upsets me, because I feel that it would be hard for me to provide Myrtle with the quality of life and the space to roam that she would have in the wild. What has been your experience with how PetSmart/PetCo acquire their torts? Also, is there any way to tell how old Myrtle was when I got her? I wish I had done more research before buying her!
Thanks so much for your replies and opinions.
~MyrtlesMum0131

Looking at the pics in your other thread. I'm not so sure your tortoise is wild caught. Looks like it might be captive bred. More pics?

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Sure!

I know that her beak is rather overgrown, but it is not interfering with her eating and I'm wary to take her to our vet. Last time he said that she was too scared and he would have to anesthetize her in order to clip it. I've heard that it can be done by positioning fingers on either side of the head, but I'm a little nervous to do it myself. Sometime in the next week or so I will try to find another vet. Should I worry about getting it done asap?

 

[dmmj]

Actually it might be captive bred. Would be a first.

 

[Tom]

Beak is fine. I wouldn't do anything. It will wear down on its own over time.

I have no way of knowing, but your tortoise looks CB to me. Its very clean and all that new looking growth suggests captive life to my eye. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. Now I have no idea where Petsmart would have gotten a CB. That is not their usually supply.

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Actually it might be captive bred. Would be a first.

Beak is fine. I wouldn't do anything. It will wear down on its own over time.

I have no way of knowing, but your tortoise looks CB to me. Its very clean and all that new looking growth suggests captive life to my eye. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. Now I have no idea where Petsmart would have gotten a CB. That is not their usually supply.

Wow, that's very interesting. Maybe someone couldn't take care of it anymore and PetSmart took it in? Seems unlikely, especially because I doubt that anyone who took the time to research and acquire a captive-bred tort would hand it over to PetSmart! Maybe someone's torts had babies by accident and they gave them to the store? I guess it's a mystery for now…

Thanks for the info on the beak! I'm glad to hear that it will wear down on its own.

 

[MyrtlesMum0131]

Russians in the wild sometimes wander for miles. Confined spaces are one of the downsides to captive life, but In my view, the upsides outweigh it.

Perception is everything... I think it is cool that you are aware of, and considering your tortoises well-being, both mentally and physically. I do the same thing and it keeps me striving to make their lives with me as good as I can make them. I'm am constantly fiddling with little things here and there trying to improve their enclosures. I'm always trying to make a good thing better. Good for you, for trying to do your best too.

Thank you so much! I'm so glad I found this forum to mingle with people who want more than a 10gal aquarium for their torts!

 

[[email protected]]

I live near a wooded area with wild turtles. People come into this area and steal turtles for pets or sell them to private people and retail pet outlets. Even more horrific, there are people who collect wild turtles and sell them for human food.

These wild turtles who I photograph, follow and watch from afar are doing just fine without people. If I find one in trouble (and I have) they are rehabilitated and returned to the wild.

It is not okay to remove turtles from the wild. Most do not survive but a few years in captivity. They die because they cannot adjust well to captivity and/or are not property cared for and end up dying from poor husbandry. Some turtles taken from the wild will stay in captivity until someone tires of them and the turtle will be "dumped" in a strange place: the fate of turned out turtles is woefully bad. Most die.

Removing turtles has a negative impact on wild populations. It takes five to ten years for turtles to become capable of reproduction. They are needed. Removing them damages future generations.

The very few wild turtles who are taken from their wild home are lucky enough to end up with a competent keeper who has the experience in proper husbandry. Now and then I hear about these turtles and keepers. I do meet a lot of these keepers here on Tortoise Forum.

I also read about a lot of wild turtles whose owners come here desperately looking for help. I hope they get the help they need here.

What I hope they learn, everyone learns, wild turtles are better off in the wild. Help wild turtles, don't remove them.

Occasionally, an injured wild turtle cannot be returned to the wild. Maybe their injuries are such that they could not survive in the wild. Maybe their habitat was destroyed. These are the wild turtles that need captive homes. If you really want a wild turtle, go to a turtle rehab group and see if they have any that need homes. I work with Turtle Rescue of Long Island. They always have turtles needing good homes.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

The rights and wrongs of wild caught vs captive bred is a swimming pool subject by itself.
Lovely tort, so perfect I would say captive bred by someone who really knows their onions.

 

[dmmj]

Swimming pool? Onions? Auto correct?

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Swimming pool? Onions? Auto correct?

English expressions.
A swimming pool subject is a very big subject that's hard to get out of easily, south west England.
Someone who really knows his onions means that he knows what he's doing.

 

[dmmj]

OK
You learn something new all the time
Apologies