Pinworms related to eye issues?

[goldenbuddha777]

Bit of background - My russian tortoise Melvin (approx 1 year old) has been poorly for the past 2 months or so, both eyes are closed for the majority of the day and even when he opens them, it is only very slightly and they look particularly swollen. He's also sleeping a lot more, is generally much more lethargic, but he is still eating.

I took him to the vet who confirmed in a fecal sample that he has "atleast 3 type of worms, including pinworms" and as a result I was given Panacur, and some antibiotic injections to treat him with. I've been giving him the panacur weekly for a total of 3 weeks (as directed) and have administered all the injections but there seems to have been little change in his condition. From my reading I understand that some presence of worms is very common and can actually be beneficial to the tort,

My primary concern is that I think perhaps the worms and his eye/lethargy are unrelated. I cannot find any discussions online, on this forum or otherwise where eye conditions are a primary symptom of worm infestations. If anyone has any experience with worms and whether their tort showed similar symptoms to Melvin, and of course any general advice would be much appreciated.

Temps + Housing

• He lives in a 40"x40" custom built table.
• I use coco coir mixed with cypress mulch as substrate, misted daily, deep enough for him to burrow himself entirely.
• I use a combined uvb/heat bulb from ExoTerra, though I'm not sure of the wattage.
• I aim for ~36C (97F) directly under the lamp measured by a temperature gun & thermometers.
• The remainder of his enclosure/ambient temperature is about 24C (75F) (I live in Wales, UK)
• The humidity ranges between 40 - 60.
• I bath him daily, for approx 15 minutes before the water gets too cold.
• His diet usually consists of Romain lettuce, kale, spring greens, cucumber, dandelion, water cress, carrots. Although on the advice of my vet I have been feeding him lettuce only for the past few weeks because apparently this will help to push the worms from his system. I sprinkle calcium power on the food every other day.
• I have tried using the baby carrot food trick, bathing him in it for a couple of days but did not notice any change.

I have no issue returning him to the vet for another look, but I live pretty remotely and it's quite the journey to my nearest exotic vet, so if there was some glaring issue with my care/housing that I could fix by myself that would be ideal.

Photos

Thanks.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Just one part of that jumped out at me....The all in one bulb. It's a MVB type.
It's very harsh.
I'd bet a buck that THAT is the beginning and the end of the eye issues. Get rid of it and use a CHE for heat and a T5 HO strip florescent UVB.
Also, stop feeding carrots. They are sugary. Your tortoise can't process sugars and that is often associated with parasitic blooms.

 

[goldenbuddha777]

Thank you for the advice, we've used the same bulb since we've had him (about 9 months) so I find it strange that it would only now be causing him problems, but there is no harm is giving it a try so I will replace it.

How would you go about fitting the T5 strips to a table like mine? I assume I can't just fix it to the side of the table because that would be too low?

 

[Lyn W]

If you post pics of his enclosure members will be able to give you better advice on positioning a tube.

I can't answer your initial question, but there are plenty of members who can such as @zovick @Yvonne G @Tom
Is your vet a tort specialist?
Then MVBs aren't recommended anymore for reasons given above by Ed , and they have been found to dry and damage shells. If the bulb is 9 months old, the uvb it is emitting is probably very weak now and not giving your tort the uvb it needs - difficult to tell unless you have a solarmeter to test it, but uvb output fades quickly in the combined bulbs and they need replacing regularly which isn't cheap!!
T5 HO tube kits are mostly recommended now, I use the Arcadia kit- about £50 online.
If you use a che it should be run through a thermostat so that it doesn't overheat your tort. I bought both of mine from the Range for about £70, but the last time I called in the Newport store it looked as if it was discontinuing reptile supplies. There are plenty of online suppliers though.
This is the most up to date caresheet you need for the correct diet and living conditions

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Cucumber has little nutritional value and has a laxative effect so shouldn't be a regular food, romaine is OK occasionally but again not a good regular food and fruits , including tomatoes are too sugary as do carrots as Ed mentioned.
www.thetortoisetable.org.uk is a good guide to tort safe foods.

 

[zovick]

Thank you for the advice, we've used the same bulb since we've had him (about 9 months) so I find it strange that it would only now be causing him problems, but there is no harm is giving it a try so I will replace it.

How would you go about fitting the T5 strips to a table like mine? I assume I can't just fix it to the side of the table because that would be too low?

You will need to hang it with chains (often supplied with shop light fixtures here) or else build a stand which will allow you to place the strip roughly 12" above the tortoise. To get the best idea how high to place the strip, you should use a Solarmeter (use the 6.5 model only). Look for a reading of about 3.0 on the Solarmeter and adjust the height of the fixture till you can that reading at tortoise level.

 

[goldenbuddha777]

I've ordered a T5 strip and a ceramic heater, hopefully this will help my buddy out. I'll also be sure to rectify his diet, thanks for all your help.

Will update (hopefully with positive news) in a few weeks for the benefit of the googling tortoise parents of the future.

 

[Yvonne G]

There are a couple MAIN reasons for swollen eyes - bad lighting and not eating because he's not warm enough.

When they stop eating that means they're not getting enough vitamin A. Best way to remedy this is to soak him in 50%/50% strained baby food carrots and warm water.

Using a small bowl with tall sides (that he can't climb out of) add enough of the 50/50 mix to come up to the middle of the baby's sides (where the top shell meets the bottom shell). Soak him in this mixture for about an hour. If you place the bowl back inside his enclosure NEXT TO but not directly under the light the liquid will stay warm. Keep a close eye on him to make sure he's not getting into trouble.

If his problem ISN'T lack of vitamin A, it's ok to do the soaks anyway as it won't be harmful.

 

[goldenbuddha777]

Unfortunately it has been about two weeks since I replaced the MBV with a T5 / CHE / Ordinary 60w basking bulb but Melvin's eyes are still closed/swollen, and he still sleeps within his hides for most of the day, and does not wake in the mornings without my aid.

I've set the T5 UVB to only come on for about 4 hours, because I understand it should provide enough UVB in this time but also should've allowed for his eyes to recover in the downtime if it was something like photo-kerato conjunctivitis affecting him. I fear that the old bulb I was using may have permanently damaged his eyes.

I haven't seen any worms in his droppings following the Panacur treatment, which I assume to be a good thing and that the treatment was successful, but it also confirms my suspicions that the eye problems are unrelated to parasites?

I also don't think it is a vitamin A deficiency problem because I have been feeding him primarily kale & dandelions for about 2 weeks now because I understand they have high vitamin A values. He seems to enjoy both and I have seen him eat a lot of it.

One thing to note is that I have never actually seen him drink. I use a shallow ceramic dish as recommended, which I clean and refill pretty much solely out of hope and habit. I've also never seen him drink in his daily baths, but I understand he can still absorb some water from his tail, and from his food when eating. As a result I'm fairly confident it's not dehydration, but not certain.

I have been using eye drops prescribed by the vet (Exocin / Ofloxacin 0.3%) but they haven't seemed to help. I will be taking him to the vet Friday, who has suggesting sedating him for a full examination, which I am kind of anxious about.

At this point I'm fairly sure it's an illness of some kind rather than an environmental thing, but I would appreciate the feedback/opinions of others.

Thanks.

Spoiler: Photo

 

[goldenbuddha777]

Just want to update to say I've solved Melvin's issue albeit unintentionally and -£400 in vets fees later..

I cleaned his table as is routine a few days ago but had run out of coco coir so I instead used leftover topsoil from the garden, and within a week he is back to normal, running around, eating everyday with his eyes wide open.

I don't want to criticise coco coir because I know it's a favourite for the tortoise community and works great for pretty much everyone. I assume this is an isolated incident because I can't find anything about tortoises being allergic to the stuff either.

I had been using the bricks from CocoGrow on amazon since February, which is exactly when he started to show signs of illness, I feel so stupid for not recognising the problem sooner, but hey! he's ok now

 

[zovick]

Just want to update to say I've solved Melvin's issue albeit unintentionally and -£400 in vets fees later..

I cleaned his table as is routine a few days ago but had run out of coco coir so I instead used leftover topsoil from the garden, and within a week he is back to normal, running around, eating everyday with his eyes wide open.

I don't want to criticise coco coir because I know it's a favourite for the tortoise community and works great for pretty much everyone. I assume this is an isolated incident because I can't find anything about tortoises being allergic to the stuff either.

I had been using the bricks from CocoGrow on amazon since February, which is exactly when he started to show signs of illness, I feel so stupid for not recognising the problem sooner, but hey! he's ok now

Glad to hear this news!

 

[Cathie G]

Just want to update to say I've solved Melvin's issue albeit unintentionally and -£400 in vets fees later..

I cleaned his table as is routine a few days ago but had run out of coco coir so I instead used leftover topsoil from the garden, and within a week he is back to normal, running around, eating everyday with his eyes wide open.

I don't want to criticise coco coir because I know it's a favourite for the tortoise community and works great for pretty much everyone. I assume this is an isolated incident because I can't find anything about tortoises being allergic to the stuff either.

I had been using the bricks from CocoGrow on amazon since February, which is exactly when he started to show signs of illness, I feel so stupid for not recognising the problem sooner, but hey! he's ok now

I've never had a problem with regular coco coir from a garden store but that doesn't mean I won't. Possibly CocoGrow is for starting seeds and not just the pure and simple dirt. I'm so glad you finally got it all figured out. If you didn't care you wouldn't have kept looking. Your Tortoise is in good hands.🤗

 

[Sarah2020]

Thank you for the advice, we've used the same bulb since we've had him (about 9 months) so I find it strange that it would only now be causing him problems, but there is no harm is giving it a try so I will replace it.

How would you go about fitting the T5 strips to a table like mine? I assume I can't just fix it to the side of the table because that would be too low?

Hi yes you can get a smaller attachment for tables that attach to side with a bl9ck the sits outside for power.. I also bought a light shield test clips on as mine climed the light to escape!