Plastron growth is concerning on Leopard Hatchling

[Allison Gray]

Hi and thank you in advance. I'm hoping for some advice on how to improve what I'm doing to help my approximate 6 month old Leopard Tortoise, Ginger. It's In a tank with the cool side around mid 70-80s, a heat mat is installed under the glass, the photo is showing the temp not far from that area. 3' UVB/UVA light, ceramic heat bulb keeps a basking area in the high 90-105sh range. Coconut coir is used for bedding, sprayed to keep humid, plus I have a little humidifier thing In the tank that is on most of the day.
Diet consists of various greens, kale, hibiscus leaves & I grow grass and dandelion too. Mazuri is offered but ignored, she really doesn't like the grass much either. I have a calcium/lime powder that's compressed that she likes to nibble on a lot, plus I sprinkle the greens with the calcium with vitamin D about once a week. Until the last week she was able to spend at least 5-6 hours a week outside to get natural sunshine as well. It's too cold here now even in the Phoenix AZ area.
I'm concerned by the raised shutes and the sort of depressed plastron grown. The shell is NOT soft, appetite and activity level is great. I've included the growth chart too. Okay so pictures will help, here you go. Again, thank you! I was really hoping to get another Leopard tortoise but I need to make sure I'm doing things right.

 

[Jodie]

Looks like the start of pyramiding. Not bad though. If you cover your enclosure, or get/build a closed chamber, that will help. I have never seen plastron growth like that before. I will be interested in what others say. I would bump the cool side temps up. I never let my little leopards get below 80F. Food and growth seem pretty good to me.
Just a reminder, leopards don't do well in pairs. So if you get another, you will need a separate enclosure.

 

[Yvonne G]

Looks like there's not enough humidity in the enclosure. Have you read the care sheet at the top of the leopard section?

 

[Allison Gray]

Looks like the start of pyramiding. Not bad though. If you cover your enclosure, or get/build a closed chamber, that will help. I have never seen plastron growth like that before. I will be interested in what others say. I would bump the cool side temps up. I never let my little leopards get below 80F. Food and growth seem pretty good to me.
Just a reminder, leopards don't do well in pairs. So if you get another, you will need a separate enclosure.

Thanks for your response. The tempature reading is about 6" above the floor. When I use the temp gun it's always much higher on the surface. I use a plastic trash bag type thing to cover 90% of the tank top to help hold in the humidity....I guess I'm going to need to try to find or build a different type of home. My first leopard, and hadn't heard they don't do well with others....hmm.

 

[Allison Gray]

Looks like there's not enough humidity in the enclosure. Have you read the care sheet at the top of the leopard section?

Yes, I've read everything I can get my hands on. This little one showed up on my doorstep with a note, so it kind of threw me into the leopard learning mode. I have a sulcata that's about 6 years old and a sulcata hatchling....no problems there at all. This little one has become my favorite, yet I'm worried about his/her plastron mostly....I've never seen anything like it before.

 

[Neal]

My first thought is that you might have too much heat in the enclosure, and that might cause some drying out. Do you have a temperature gun, or something that you could use to measure the surface temperature? How are you measuring humidity? Although the ambient temperatures you mentioned are good, I wonder about the surface temperature with that heat mat.

My first recommendation would be to remove the heat mat from underneath the enclosure. How large is the aquarium he is in? You should be able to maintain desired temperature levels in an aquarium with just the CHE. You may need to get creative like adding a top to it so the heat and humidity don't escape so easily.

Do you provide a water dish? If not, how often do you soak your tortoise?

Could you provide a picture of his enclosure?

Your tortoise is pyramiding, and in all honesty, it's pyramiding quite a lot in my opinion. He is still young and small enough that new shell growth can be greatly improved given better environmental conditions.

 

[Neal]

I don't see anything to be concerned with about his plastron. I rarely see one that looks nice and uniform. There's typically umbilical scaring, bumps and other weird inconsistencies.

 

[Allison Gray]

Thank you Neal for your input and insight. I agree the permyding is of concern too. I do use a temp gun, the mid 80s is the ambient temps inside a tank measuring 16"x48" the screen on top holds the 3' UV light and a ceramic heat bulb is on the opposite side from the under tank, heating a top level that has a hide under it. Yes I keep a shallow water area and soak it 4-5 times a week for about 15 min each.
I will add pictures when I get home. You really don't see any issues with the plastron?

I don't see anything to be concerned with about his plastron. I rarely see one that looks nice and uniform. There's typically umbilical scaring, bumps and other weird inconsistencies.

 

[Neal]

Nothing appears tobe wrong to me, other than it's kind of ugly looking. Not being mean, lol, that's just how sone turn out unfortunatley. I've got sone gnarly looking plastrons in my group.

I would even say the new growth coming in looks really good.

 

[Tom]

I second what Neal said.

My recommendations:
1. Eliminate the heat pad, but make sure it stays warm enough in there.
2. Closed chambers work best and don't need to be kept wet to maintain reasonable humidity.
3. Switch to fine grade orchid bark, instead of coir.
4. Mid 70's is too cool. I'd bump it up to 80.
5. Its normal for regular leopards to not like grass. I wouldn't worry about that.
6. Keep trying the Mazuri by soaking a single pellet and mashing it up with the days greens. This is a good supplement and it will be worth it to take the time to get your tortoise eating it.
7. Regular leopards usually do okay in groups, but no species does well in pairs.

 

[Yvonne G]

I think you've mentioned a screen top. If your UVB light sits on a screen, you might not be getting enough UVB into the habitat. Screen filters out most of the UVB rays.

 

[Allison Gray]

I think you've mentioned a screen top. If your UVB light sits on a screen, you might not be getting enough UVB into the habitat. Screen filters out most of the UVB rays.

The 3' UVB/ UVA bulb is mounted on the inside of the metal screen top. It's reinforced with some extra metal strips.

 

[Allison Gray]

Okay I'm going to attempt to attach photos of her encloser.

 

[Tom]

That looks to be a decent enclosure.

You probably don't need the paper on the front.

I see a basking lamp on the upper level, but I don't see night heat.

 

[Allison Gray]

That looks to be a decent enclosure.

You probably don't need the paper on the front.

I see a basking lamp on the upper level, but I don't see night heat.

The basking lamp is ceramic, I keep it on 24-7. The paper is wrapped around because the little critter was kinda going crazy trying to dig or climb the glass. The paper limits it some. I may reduce the height so I can see in more. I keep the heat mat on the opposite end of the heat lamp. Which is where he/she prefers to sleep, I don't think the ceramic heat would be enough to keep the tempatures warm enough without it. What other way could I add heat, two ceramic heat bulbs?

 

[Tom]

I would run two ceramic heat bulbs set on a thermostat to maintain ambient where you want it day and night, and ALSO run a basking bulb on a timer for daytime. A basking lamp is to simulate the sun when they are indoors. It helps if it emits lights as well as heat. The CHEs are great for maintaining ambient temps because they keep it dark at night, but still warm enough.

 

[Allison Gray]

So do you think the 3' UVB/UVB light isn't enough, or as good of quality? I realize it doesn't emit heat, my thinking was it disperses in a larger area since the tank is 4' long. I will make some adjustments to the heat sources. I wish there was a way to have them installed inside the tank because I worry about the possibility of it getting knocked off the top....I do live with a cat too....so you know it's everywhere. I'm thinking I may need to make an indoor enclosure out of wood and plexiglass....I've been looking at lots of variations but haven't found any showing the ceramic heat bulbs installed inside...I realize it's because you don't want them to get too close....I'm going to figure something out. I think I may convert a coffee table.

 

[teresaf]

Try this Mazuri. Most(95%) torts love it... Just soften and put a piece in with the greens. Also, you can pour a cup of water into the dirt in the corners to help raise humidity...I would raise the lows to 80f...

 

[Tom]

So do you think the 3' UVB/UVB light isn't enough, or as good of quality? I realize it doesn't emit heat, my thinking was it disperses in a larger area since the tank is 4' long.

The florescent tube is fine, but its a totally separate issue from your heat sources. Here is a response I typed up for another member on the subject. I think it might break it all down for you too:

" Let me break down the heating and lighting thing. You need three or four elements:
1. Heat. During the day this is best accomplished with 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store set on digital timers. These also give some light. Move them higher or lower to get the basking temp under them correct. I buy them in 6 packs, so if they burn out I always have a spare on hand.
2. Light. Sometimes the basking bulb and ambient room light are enough. If not, use a tube style florescent strip light form the hardware store. Run it on the same timer as the heat lamps. Try to get a bulb in the 5000-6500K color range. The more common 2500K color range bulbs look yellowish.
3. Ambient temp maintenance and night heat. Tortoises need it dark at night, but still warm. This is best accomplished with the use of a CHE in a ceramic based fixture. Get the 11" ceramic based domes from Home Depot for all your heat lamps.
4. UV. Best to sun them for an hour two or more times a week. Its okay to skip a few weeks over winter and this will do no harm. Since you live in the frozen North (Okay, Midwest, but its a figure of speech…), you will need to provide some artificial UV. Several options for this:
a. Use a mercury vapor bulb, like the power sun for your basking bulb. Use this in the Home Depot fixture I mentioned, not in a small pet store dome or deep dome. Replace it every fall.
b. Use a long tube type 10.0 florescent bulb. These MUST be mounted no more than 10-12" from the tortoise to be effective.
c. Get an Arcadia 12% HO bulb from lightyourreptiles.com. These are great, but they make a lot of UV. Mount it at least 18" and as much as 26" away from the tortoise and put it on its own timer for only about 4 hours a day."

 

[Tom]

I wish there was a way to have them installed inside the tank because I worry about the possibility of it getting knocked off the top....I do live with a cat too....so you know it's everywhere. I'm thinking I may need to make an indoor enclosure out of wood and plexiglass....I've been looking at lots of variations but haven't found any showing the ceramic heat bulbs installed inside...I realize it's because you don't want them to get too close....I'm going to figure something out. I think I may convert a coffee table.

Funny. You've already arrived at the place that I would have tried to steer you. Check this out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

Ignore the text on this one and just check out the enclosure:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/