"Playing" with young tortoise to make it....friendly?

[aztortoisegal]

So I generally pick little guy up and carry him up on the patio to roam around, and have a grape leaf snack, once in the morning. I put him on my lap, and scratch his neck, and in where his legs meet the rest of his body. Scratch his head, scrub gently with an old toothbrush on his shell, and feet, etc. I'm hoping this will make him trust humans for when he's older and hopefully does NOT develop defensive attitudes, or charges, or just hides when a human approaches.

Is this worth doing, will it make him trust me? He eats from my hand on my lap, and when he's on the ground, he takes food from my hand. But is it a good practice to keep up, the handling and attention I give him? I want him to trust me and feel comfortable enough not to withdraw into his shell whenever someone approaches and so far he's fairly friendly and follows me around at times. I'm picturing him ten years down the road, as a giant tortoise, and don't want to see any aggressive behavior on his part.

Any suggestions, or dos and donts? Any advice is welcome, I love the amount of experience and insight offered here by the experienced tortoise lovers.

He does shrink away when the dog ventures by too quickly or approaches from behind and startled him, but that's ok, I don't necessarily want him trusting other animals. The dog has proven to be a non threat, and I trust her completely now.

 

[sissyofone]

Hello I'm not sure if that will help gain your tortoises trust, I really think when the tort is sexually mature it will act like a tort regardless of how much handling it gets. But I gotta say this, YOUVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH DANGER YOUR TORTS IN, if you leave it alone with your dog for ANY reason.. Torts and Dogs Do Not Mix. Please read the threads on TFO regarding Torts and Dogs. Torts are way too often chew toys for dogs. I've seen it happen with the best trained dogs. It may not be today or tomorrow but it will. For your torts sake Please Keep The Dog Away. And PLEASE don't take this advice personally , We care for the safety and we'll being of your tortoise.

 

[WallieWay]

I agree...You can never trust your dog. Even if she isn't interested today, she can't be trusted. Not that she's a bad dog, but she is a dog, and they have instincts. There are quite a few threads about unfortunate stories between a dog and a tort. Even cats too. I have never allowed my dogs to even have the slightest interest in my tortoise or his table, and as far as I know they don't even know he's there, but I'm still very cautious.

Anyway, like any pet I definitely think handling your little guy isn't a bad thing, but I wouldn't fret too much about it.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

@Elohi has playing with your tortoises made them friendly? LOL

I pull Elohi into this because in her case with the leopards, I think it's an obvious yes!

You have a Sulcata, right? I hear they are outgoing as they grow regardless of effort.
I also hear you'll get ramming, bulldozing, chasing (maybe the things you're referring to when you say aggression) as they grow regardless of effort.

You trust your dog completely with the tort? Hmmm... Even some high level dog trainers don't trust their highly trained canines unsupervised around torts... Maybe you should reevaluate your trust in your dog around a tort.

 

[wellington]

I think the more attention you give your tort the more comfortable it will be around you. My first leopard doesn't mind me at all, except, her will still pull his head in if startled but will quickly put it back out once he knows its me. I would be more careful with the hand feeding of a sulcata, seeing they are bull dozers when they are large. That could be a possible danger if your not paying attention.
As for the dog, they are not friends and never will be. Please save yourself and your tortoises from the pains that will come some day if left together

 

[DawnH]

When Tuleo was a big younger (he will be 2 in July) he would hide from just about anything. I handle him daily and now when I walk by him he perks up and walks to me. He loves it when I "scratch" his shell and no longer hides when I attempt to pet his head or neck. He just makes his neck stretch as long as it can and closes his eyes. Will this make him a better tortoise? I like to think it already has. Will this make him not ram me when he is older? I have no idea and hope to not find out...lol. All I know is right now, in this moment - he seems to enjoy it.

 

[Tom]

Adult male sulcatas are not usually aggressive toward people. They are aggressive toward other male sulcatas. Females are usually not aggressive toward anyone or anything. Nothing you do will change this. It is hormonal and instinctive.

Most sulcatas get a lot more outgoing and less fearful in their 3 or 4th year, regardless of what you do or don't do. All the stuff you are doing now is good and helpful, but not necessary to have friendly outgoing adult sulcata. Its good to have them desensitized, but also remember that the hand feeding can lead to them biting people.

Trusting your dog around the tortoise is a mistake. No dog can be "proven" to be a non-threat, and no dog should ever be "trusted" even a little bit, much less completely. I have been a career professional dog/animal trainer since 1991. I see the worst of the worst. Please take this free advice and NEVER let your dog have unsupervised access to your tortoise, not even for one single second.

 

[aztortoisegal]

I appreciate all the concern about the dog, but I can't stress enough how it truly is not an issue, at all, like not even a bit. I should clarify that the tortoise shrinks away because he was startled by being approached, period, not because it was the dog, if I approach from behind and or too quickly, I get the same reaction. They've lived together in harmony for about a year now, and the tiny mini pinscher, and her tiny mouth aren't a threat. She's protective as heck about every member of the family, little tortoise included. So..we're good on that front, promise. And I am not the least bit concerned that tiny dog is just waiting for her chance to maul the tort when I'm not looking. Not. A. Bit.

So I'll keep on scratching his neck and feeding him, sounds like it's not hurting at all, so what's the harm. Thanks all!

 

[aztortoisegal]

Just the other day actually, I opened the gate for my husband to drive in, and we both do a check around the yard to make sure the tort is no where near the driveway area. So he was off to the side, and apparently too close for comfort for the dog's liking. So she sprinted over the driveway and stood over the tortoise. It was incredible, we remarked about it for days, and I even called my mom to tell her about the dog racing over to protect "her buddy". It was amazing. But he really wasn't anywhere near the driveway and completely safe.

 

[Jodie]

My dog was great for several years with my tortoise. Never paid him any attention. One day I found my tortoise upside down on my deck, all chewed up. My dog had gotten him out of his enclosure and gnawed on him. I was lucky, there were no punctures, and the shell was not crushed. Please do not insist on learning this lesson the hard way. Your tortoise is a walking bone.

 

[Tom]

Just the other day actually, I opened the gate for my husband to drive in, and we both do a check around the yard to make sure the tort is no where near the driveway area. So he was off to the side, and apparently too close for comfort for the dog's liking. So she sprinted over the driveway and stood over the tortoise. It was incredible, we remarked about it for days, and I even called my mom to tell her about the dog racing over to protect "her buddy". It was amazing. But he really wasn't anywhere near the driveway and completely safe.

Think about all the tortoises that get chewed on every year. What percentage of those dog owners do you think felt exactly the same as you do? Do you know how many people with chewed up tortoises told me the exact same thing you are telling me prior, sometimes years prior, to their tortoise being chewed up by the harmless, loving family dog that never paid any attention to the tortoise? I haven't ever kept a running count, but its a lot. And even more have told me the same thing you are telling me, after the damage was done.

I won't harp on it anymore. You've been warned. I don't see why you'd even take the risk.

 

[Elohi]

@Elohi has playing with your tortoises made them friendly? LOL

I pull Elohi into this because in her case with the leopards, I think it's an obvious yes!

You have a Sulcata, right? I hear they are outgoing as they grow regardless of effort.
I also hear you'll get ramming, bulldozing, chasing (maybe the things you're referring to when you say aggression) as they grow regardless of effort.

You trust your dog completely with the tort? Hmmm... Even some high level dog trainers don't trust their highly trained canines unsupervised around torts... Maybe you should reevaluate your trust in your dog around a tort.

I definitely think handling your tortoises in a consistent manner makes them less shy and more friendly. All of my leopards are handled daily and it shows. Doing a search of my pictures and posts with videos demonstrates how I interact with them and how they react to that frequent handling.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

My Tidgy is part of the family and handled often.
I am certain she likes it, within reason.
She is now not scared of people at all, as long as they don't move too quickly, a complete reverse of the terrified baby I rescued.
Please, be careful of the dog, just one little friendly snap one day and an eye or leg could be damaged, or worse.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

My dog was great for several years with my tortoise. Never paid him any attention. One day I found my tortoise upside down on my deck, all chewed up. My dog had gotten him out of his enclosure and gnawed on him. I was lucky, there were no punctures, and the shell was not crushed. Please do not insist on learning this lesson the hard way. Your tortoise is a walking bone.

Unless your dog is smaller than...And afraid of your tortoises. My dog will not enter any part of the yard when he sees a tortoise out there.
Him eating tortoise poo is my only concern.
My recently acquired Big Male RF does like to be touched and scratched. He was raised by a woman with no children at home and was treated like a puppy.

 

[WallieWay]

I suggest you take a look at these links, especially the first one. These's are just a few threads that pop up when you search "dog" or "dog attack"...I know you love your dog and your tort baby, so why put either of them into this situation? Just not worth it :/

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/injured-redfoot-dog-attack.28825/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-dog.60519/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-dog-story.45850/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/dog-grabbed-hemi-and-ran.45577/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-bit-by-dog-help.54992/

 

[aztortoisegal]

I definitely appreciate the concern, I've learned so much since joining, so thanks for all the great advice thus far. I'm glad there are people like you all willing to say something that probably makes most people bristle and take offense, and stomp off in a huff...lol.

I would be willing to bet just about anything that the tortoise is perfectly safe with the dog, but I think I'll just take your advice anyways and rig up his pen to be dog proof, for use when they are both roaming the yard unsupervised.

Do you think once the tortoise is larger than the dog, which should be in a few years from now, they'll be trustworthy together? Dog's head is practically the same size as the tortoise, and she's done growing. I've just put so much effort in to making the backyard a tortoise haven, where he finds plants to eat, different bushes that he's dug hidey holes, etc.

Again, thank you all for the concern and suggestions, and I don't want to come off as someone trying to argue or get away with something that you all say is a bad idea, and perhaps I am and just don't want to see it ...lol. I want the best of both worlds I guess....happy healthy tortoise, and harmonious existence with my little dog who shows the tortoise respect, when she pays it any attention at all. Have a great rest of the day!

 

[aztortoisegal]

Think about all the tortoises that get chewed on every year. What percentage of those dog owners do you think felt exactly the same as you do? Do you know how many people with chewed up tortoises told me the exact same thing you are telling me prior, sometimes years prior, to their tortoise being chewed up by the harmless, loving family dog that never paid any attention to the tortoise? I haven't ever kept a running count, but its a lot. And even more have told me the same thing you are telling me, after the damage was done.

I won't harp on it anymore. You've been warned. I don't see why you'd even take the risk.

Yeah, that IS frightening, and I think I'd rather NOT be one of those people with a sad story one day that I'd come here and tell, and recall THIS very conversation. Thanks Tom, you're absolutely right.

 

[aztortoisegal]

Just the other day actually, I opened the gate for my husband to drive in, and we both do a check around the yard to make sure the tort is no where near the driveway area. So he was off to the side, and apparently too close for comfort for the dog's liking. So she sprinted over the driveway and stood over the tortoise. It was incredible, we remarked about it for days, and I even called my mom to tell her about the dog racing over to protect "her buddy". It was amazing. But he really wasn't anywhere near the driveway and completely safe.

Oh man, I really wish that could have been caught on camera, I think you all would all be so impressed too, it was amazing! But I will chalk that up to a one time anomaly, and keep the two separated and supervised from here on out. I can't stress enough again, how grateful I am for the combined knowledge and passion for tortoises everyone here has, and is eager to share with everyone else.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I'm glad you are receiving the advice as help.

The dog around your tort WHILE YOU ARE PRESENT is completely different than the dog around your tort ALONE.. Remember that

I've heard stories of the giant sullies hurting little dogs believe it or not. So as the tort grows and has the whole yard, my guess is you'd want to leave the dog indoors when you aren't home

 

[aztortoisegal]

Yeah, I won't lie, I'm not happy to have to go and dog proof the pen for when I'm not around to watch them, but I'm determined now not to be one of "those people" who has some sad story to report one of these days. I sure do love this little tortoise and cannot in good conscience, ignore this advice repeated by all of you. I'll quit being sappy now, and just thank you all one more time. <3