Please get a clue!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Livingstone

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
761
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, Va
I am writing this post because I'm tired of reading about everybodies "X" month old sulcata that has a soft shell and isn't eating. There is something wrong with being able to buy a baby animal that is at its most vulnerable when keepers are just starting to learn. Breeders should raise the price of these animals to prevent them from getting into the hands of people who dont have a clue about how to care for a reptile. It makes me sick that on some sites it even states the tortoises below a certain size dont have a guarantee for length of time they may or may not live, or that they are sold for scientific purposes... I can think of nothing scientific about dying from dehydration, poor diet, lack of proper lighting or proper care.

If you own a tortoise and intend to raise it from a baby then please for the sake of the animal get the correct setup, do your homework, and remember by the time you can tell a tortoise is sick... its probably too late.

We've all read the posts in sulcata central... User has NEWB status and there first post is... My tortoise is sick. For those people, your first post should have been 5 months earlier when you were researching how best to care for the animal, not as its knocking on deaths door.

It makes me sick to picture a tortoise the same size as mine, dying in a fake environment, under a humming flourescent light, gasping for breath with bubbles coming from its nose, as it waits for its internal organs to shut down. Please close your eyes and try to picture that, then look at your tortoise and think, what if it had gone to a home where the owner had no idea how to care for it?

Dont let your tortoise be the poster child for your idiocy. These animals are the most difficult to care for when they are young. The younger they are the harder they are to raise and the more care they require.
 

egyptiandan

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
5,788
Location (City and/or State)
USA
Preaching a bit to the converted here. :p All great points and it would be nice if people did research on how to care for an animal they purchased. Most do though go by what was told to them from the people they bought the tortoise from. Petshops, dealers and some breeders have never raised a hatchling tortoise and are giving advice to buyers who believe what they are told whole heartedly and with that advice don't think they need to "look" anything up. Most buyers see a cute tortoise and fall in love and have to have it. They aren't "into" tortoises, so aren't going to go beyond what was told to them about care.
The "For Scientific Purposes" and a few other exceptions are a business' way of getting around the "4 inch rule". Which states a business can't sell turtles or tortoises under 4 inches, except for 4 exceptions, scientific purposes, exhibition, education and export. Breeders can sell their hatchlings as long as they aren't a business. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=1240.62
Most breeders don't sell directly to the public, so don't have much to say about raising prices. The wholesaler or dealer would dictate the price and none of them, like the breeder want to get "stuck" with any animals longer than they have to. That cuts into profits.
Now here's an idea to get the word out (just jumped into my head) which is pretty impossible from here :p Getting in-touch with dealers and wholesalers and asking them to link us to their website and to recommend to the people that buy hatchlings to join the forum. :D This would hopefully prevent the "I've got a sick hatchling" postings that we see all to often.

Danny
 

Clementine_3

Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
173
Location (City and/or State)
Upstate NY
While I agree that a lot of research should be done well before any pet is brought home and that it's housing should be set up and perfect it just doesn't always work that way. When I got my tortoise I had to scramble to make a table and get proper supplies for him, I got him out of a bad situation and into a better one but perhaps a bit backwards (as far as being prepared). I also agree that breeders (of anything) and pet shops need to do a better job with education, not all are bad though, really can't use a broad brush for that.

What I cannot agree with is calling new owners out for coming here, or any other forum, looking for help! They may not have researched as much as they should have and may not have things set up right but they realize this and are reaching out for assistance. I truly don't see how anyone can fault them for that.
I keep a Greek tortoise, Leopard geckos and Carpet pythons. I researched their care requirements beforehand and knew what I was getting into but that does not mean I didn't (and still do) have a lot of questions about them. Had I visited a forum and read "User has NEWB status and there first post is... My tortoise is sick. For those people, your first post should have been 5 months earlier when you were researching how best to care for the animal, not as its knocking on deaths door." I'm not so sure I would want to ask for help!

This forum is here so new keepers can learn and provide the best possible care for their torts and turtles and so that more experienced keepers can continue to learn and grow. New keepers who have made mistakes should be made to feel welcome and free to ask any question they have, not chastised for being new and inexperienced.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,449
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
My sister and I always complain to each other about the "new" hatchling keeper who writes in and worries about his baby's soft shell, or swollen eyes, or fill in the blank. Because we've been here a long time and have seen this over and over again, it does get a bit tiresome. But because we're here to help those folks, we can't let this irritation creep into our answers. We don't want to chase these people away, we want them to stay here and get help for their babies.

The new hatchling keeper who is writing here for the first time doesn't realize that his question has been asked numerous times before here on the forum, so we have to be patient and treat this person like this is the first time we've answered the question.

The problem isn't the forum. The problem is the pet shop who doesn't give out the correct care. The breeder who doesn't make sure the buyer understands the proper care for the animal. And, yes, the new owner for not doing his research before he bought the baby.

We just do the best we can here on the forum, and hope we can reach them before the baby dies.

Yvonne
 

katesgoey

Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
664
I would also point out that no matter how much research is done, if a newbie has a vet that doesn't have a clue, their new tortoise could get sick and if they haven't found this forum, they wouldn't know not to follow the vet's instructions. There have been a lot of tortoises from newbies restored to better health because of the help provided on this forum. I personally do not understand the posts that jump all over people or come off judgmental when the posters come here for help. It does get tiresome reading the same type of posts when researching the threads would provide answers, but as Yvonne pointed out, the purpose of this forum is to help. I, for one, am very grateful for this forum and for all the newbie questions because it helps remind me what to consider and maybe look anew at my pens and enclosures and tortoises. It also reminds me how many more people have been educated by visiting this forum and learning proper tortoise care.
 

Madkins007

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
5,393
Location (City and/or State)
Nebraska
A few points...

1.) The 4 Inch Rule has a specific clause in it that prevents people using the 'well, its for display/scientific purposes in my house' excuse:
"Exceptions. The provisions of this section are not applicable to:
(1) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets." If the inspectors come and you are a PET store offering turtles, it is pretty clear they are being sold as PETS no matter what sort of waiver the store made you sign.

2.) Yeah, I get tired of people who have not done basic research as well. In some other sites, they can refer the asker to a series of posted articles. I sometimes wish we had something like that here. On the other hand, an awful lot of us here were in that newbie position once upon a time and were happy when someone patiently gave us the answers we needed. I just think of it as 'giving something back'.
 

Jacqui

Wanna be raiser of Lemon Drop tortoises
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
39,941
Location (City and/or State)
A Land Far Away...
Sometimes, it is just easier and faster to directly make a post saying you need help then trying to figure out how to exactly work your way around a new site, each complete with their own ways to do things. I think even if we have to keep repeating oursleves, it's okay....and actually good for all of us. Why is it good for us?:

First off, we can zero in on exactly what is wrong with a certain tortoise and/or it's current setup. We can find tune it to what will work for that animal, that situation, and that owner. No two situations are exactly the same. For many issues, especially when dealing with tiny hatchlings, time is a huge factor in outcome.

For those still new to tortoises and reading those type posts, it keeps reminding them about the basics and perhaps cause them to tweak a bit more their own set ups. (Remember we retain very little we read only once. The more often and ways you read information, the better it is saved in your mind.) It gives these fairly new folks a chance to start sharing what they have recently learned with others who are even newer then themselves and gaining new confidence in theirselves.

For the ones who have been around for awhile, I think it helps keep us grounded, our minds fresher on basic needs (for both the tortoises and the care givers), and sometimes even we learn new things (or remember old ones we had forgotten).

Each of us can learn from each and every post. It may be about care, needs, what difficulties folks in other parts of the world face, may be it helps us learn how to better express our thoughts with each other, and it could only be that it causes you to think back to your own start or look over to your current critters and be thankful for where they (and you) are today.

Making somebody feel bad for what the have done or failed to do in the past is counterproductive. The past can't be changed. Guilt builds walls, blinds eyes, and closes ears to learning. Instead, just be glad they have chosen to come forward, to learn and try to correct what is wrong...hopefully before it's too late for the tortoise.

Yes, it would help a lot, if the breeders and sellers would give out better information. Each of us can help that situation by trying to be sure these folks have the correct information themselves. Look how many different opinions there are out there on how to keep these animals. How much even in this forum, we argue/discuss what works for us, what we believe is the correct way to care for these special creatures. Those of you new to tortoises probably have no idea how much the world of tortoise care has changed in the last 10-15 years. How much new knowledge is coming out everyday.

Make gentle suggestions to the seller/breeders/vets/zookeepers. By this I mean don't go in with guns blazing and taking no captives. Don't tell them (or imply) they are wrong, stupid, uncaring or anything negative. It just gets walls built up and no learning will happen. Instead offer thoughts, suggest maybe they might enjoy reading this or that care sheet or site. Like Danny says, suggest this site. Maybe even point out how it will work in their favor. Happy buyers will make return purchases, share the name of their breeder/seller to others, ect.., Remember they are human, plus they are running businesses.

The main thing is, YOU need to become proactive. Welcome and encourage new folks. Encourage and praise those who are taking the time to answer threads. A lot of good knowledgable folks get burned out and feel like they are accomplishing nothing and they slowly stop sharing. What a waste. Then go outside this group. Share your knowledge with the breeders, the sellers, the vets, the zookeepers, people shopping around you in the animal stores, heck the people you meet on the street. :D Get involved with local groups and community gatherings. Hand out care sheets, places to go for more information, and mostly be their giving of yourself. Listen to their stories (and believe me they tell you great ones).

Complaining alone may make you feel better, but it doesn't last long and won't change anything. Becoming active, changing the world one tort at a time, will give you a power, a high that never leaves and a smile that comes from deep inside.
 

Livingstone

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
761
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, Va
My goal was not to discourage anybody from coming here to ask questions, just that would-be keepers should be here first before it becomes a life and death issue.

If anything I would think that the forum should have a means for new owners to post questions without becoming members, so that we can reach out and give help. Since time is a critical issue when young animals are sick it would make sense to facilitate those in need with useful answers, and if such an area existed we would all know where to go to give the right advise. Something like that would set this forum apart from the rest. That is truly where I was trying to take this.

I do appreciate the criticism and I will avoid posting late at night after watching to much animal planet and nat geo. :p

Thanks all.
 

Jacqui

Wanna be raiser of Lemon Drop tortoises
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
39,941
Location (City and/or State)
A Land Far Away...
Livingstone said:
My goal was not to discourage anybody from coming here to ask questions, just that would-be keepers should be here first before it becomes a life and death issue.

If anything I would think that the forum should have a means for new owners to post questions without becoming members, so that we can reach out and give help. Since time is a critical issue when young animals are sick it would make sense to facilitate those in need with useful answers, and if such an area existed we would all know where to go to give the right advise. Something like that would set this forum apart from the rest. That is truly where I was trying to take this.

I do appreciate the criticism and I will avoid posting late at night after watching to much animal planet and nat geo. :p

Thanks all.

No don't stop! I am sorry, if you felt we were all coming down on you. You made some valid points and best of all, you got us all thinking and reacting. Thank you! :)

Question for you, since your fairly new...well newer then me any how. :D I can't recall signing up for this site. Was it long? Asked a lot of questions? Did you have to wait to get approved? What was your experience?

My memory says it was fast and simple for me. I think by having the person have to join, it shows perhaps they are more likely to listen to our advice? To sincerely want it? Also it keeps out a few of the unwanted folks who create threads or post just for the sake of getting folks stirred up. Sorta a very low level security thing.:rolleyes:
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,449
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Livingstone said:
I do appreciate the criticism and I will avoid posting late at night after watching to much animal planet and nat geo. :p

Thanks all.

Since you posted this topic in "debatable topics," that means you have to expect opinions on both sides of the subject. Please don't feel that any of the posts here are aimed directly at you. We are talking about the subject, not you or the way you posted. We are not criticizing YOU, but merely the subject of the post.

And I know what you mean about TV. Gets me all hyped up too!

:D

Yvonne
 

egyptiandan

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
5,788
Location (City and/or State)
USA
That was me Yvonne :p this morning :D It was originally in General Tortoise Discussion. I thought it would be better here. ;)
I also had to clean it up a bit. :p

Danny
 

Livingstone

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
761
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, Va
Jacqui said:
Livingstone said:
My goal was not to discourage anybody from coming here to ask questions, just that would-be keepers should be here first before it becomes a life and death issue.

If anything I would think that the forum should have a means for new owners to post questions without becoming members, so that we can reach out and give help. Since time is a critical issue when young animals are sick it would make sense to facilitate those in need with useful answers, and if such an area existed we would all know where to go to give the right advise. Something like that would set this forum apart from the rest. That is truly where I was trying to take this.

I do appreciate the criticism and I will avoid posting late at night after watching to much animal planet and nat geo. :p

Thanks all.

No don't stop! I am sorry, if you felt we were all coming down on you. You made some valid points and best of all, you got us all thinking and reacting. Thank you! :)

Question for you, since your fairly new...well newer then me any how. :D I can't recall signing up for this site. Was it long? Asked a lot of questions? Did you have to wait to get approved? What was your experience?

My memory says it was fast and simple for me. I think by having the person have to join, it shows perhaps they are more likely to listen to our advice? To sincerely want it? Also it keeps out a few of the unwanted folks who create threads or post just for the sake of getting folks stirred up. Sorta a very low level security thing.:rolleyes:

The signup process is not overly complicated nor is it very lengthy, however when you are faced with a sick animal most people are looking for the fastest answer, not a sign up process. This I believe probably discourages more people than it helps. Anybody with a sick animal is going to listen to advise and by using sign up as a security device we are taking the easy way out. I do not doubt that there are people posting just to antagonize, but it seems fairly small minded of us to limit help to others for that reason. I dont think we should be thinking that one bad apple spoils the bunch in this case. We are making somebody who is desperate for advise jump through hoops to get it. Essentially we are puting the cart before the horse. If we are truly trying to help?

I am not advicating that the whole forum be open to everybody, just that we make an area limited to those who need help, one area that they can ask questions in and get answers... This would make it easier for mods to BAN and DELETE useless and antagonzing posts.

Let me also reiterate that this is a fantastic learning tool and community, what we write about and discuss here is the cutting edge of husbandry practice and sharing that knowledge only benefits these great animals if not the people that own them.

Thanks.
Rob
 

terryo

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,975
Location (City and/or State)
Staten Island, New York
For me doing too much research just led to frustration. I researched for almost a year before I decided on a Cherry Head (redfoot). All the research and sites I went into told me the same thing...... No aquarium tanks...plastic tubs..or tables. Some sites said UVB...some said no UVB. Some gave a list of toxic plants...other lists had the same plants as non toxic. Most breeders I got in contact with were very kind and helpful.....others had no patience for new tortoise owners. Each breeder I spoke to had a different opinion on how to raise a hatchling. Some breeders actually spoke bad about the other breeders. No one agreed on anything. So when I got my first (and only) tortoise I was so confused and frustrated. It took a very long time and a lot of worrying, and some sleepless nights, to finally get it right. All the research, with such conflicting advice only caused me to get upset and try different things on my own until I got it right. So what is a new tortoise owner supposed to do with all this conflicting advice on the net? :(
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,717
Location (City and/or State)
CA
After reading the OP I can say that if I was a new member or someone not use to forums I would probably be scared away. I would like to think that people can post questions on here and not be afraid. That being said I can see how seeing the same question over and over again can be a little disturbing. But myself I would rather answer the same question 1000 times and help save a turtle ot tortoises life then never see a question and see some poor little guy die. Just my 2 cents.
 

Livingstone

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
761
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, Va
terryo said:
For me doing too much research just led to frustration. I researched for almost a year before I decided on a Cherry Head (redfoot). All the research and sites I went into told me the same thing...... No aquarium tanks...plastic tubs..or tables. Some sites said UVB...some said no UVB. Some gave a list of toxic plants...other lists had the same plants as non toxic. Most breeders I got in contact with were very kind and helpful.....others had no patience for new tortoise owners. Each breeder I spoke to had a different opinion on how to raise a hatchling. Some breeders actually spoke bad about the other breeders. No one agreed on anything. So when I got my first (and only) tortoise I was so confused and frustrated. It took a very long time and a lot of worrying, and some sleepless nights, to finally get it right. All the research, with such conflicting advice only caused me to get upset and try different things on my own until I got it right. So what is a new tortoise owner supposed to do with all this conflicting advice on the net? :(

First I need to ask you, where you a member on this site when you were going throught the trials of trying to fine tune your husbandry? If not, why not? Do you think that in that time of need if you could have posted in an open forum to get an answer you would have, rather than speculate about whether you were doing the right thing?

Husbandry is an ongoing practice, things like using rabbit pellets as substrate which was considered the norm a couple years ago is now a big nono. Thats why the net and search engines are not good sources, mostly due to the fact that the information is or can be fairly dated, most sites dont have a publication date or are an amalgamation of information with no citing for where or who published the text. This is why forums are the cutting edge because of knowledge sharing, forums also have a time line so if you search for an answer you can determine based on the date of the post whether or not this is the most up to date practice. Not to mention the fact that this is real time, owners/keepers can go from theory to practice to publish and share within days. Something like that would take months in any other form of media.

But my point was to speed up the process of getting answers to those who need them. If everybody knew how to post and research then this would probably be unnecessary. However my theory about creating a section that allows non members to get pertinent questions answered in an expedited manner will remain just that, a theory. Having a debate about whether something will be effective without trying it, is like trying to teach a pig to speak english. It cant be done and just irritates the pig.
 

terryo

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,975
Location (City and/or State)
Staten Island, New York
Livingstone said:
terryo said:
For me doing too much research just led to frustration. I researched for almost a year before I decided on a Cherry Head (redfoot). All the research and sites I went into told me the same thing...... No aquarium tanks...plastic tubs..or tables. Some sites said UVB...some said no UVB. Some gave a list of toxic plants...other lists had the same plants as non toxic. Most breeders I got in contact with were very kind and helpful.....others had no patience for new tortoise owners. Each breeder I spoke to had a different opinion on how to raise a hatchling. Some breeders actually spoke bad about the other breeders. No one agreed on anything. So when I got my first (and only) tortoise I was so confused and frustrated. It took a very long time and a lot of worrying, and some sleepless nights, to finally get it right. All the research, with such conflicting advice only caused me to get upset and try different things on my own until I got it right. So what is a new tortoise owner supposed to do with all this conflicting advice on the net? :(

First I need to ask you, where you a member on this site when you were going throught the trials of trying to fine tune your husbandry? If not, why not? Do you think that in that time of need if you could have posted in an open forum to get an answer you would have, rather than speculate about whether you were doing the right thing?

Husbandry is an ongoing practice, things like using rabbit pellets as substrate which was considered the norm a couple years ago is now a big nono. Thats why the net and search engines are not good sources, mostly due to the fact that the information is or can be fairly dated, most sites dont have a publication date or are an amalgamation of information with no citing for where or who published the text. This is why forums are the cutting edge because of knowledge sharing, forums also have a time line so if you search for an answer you can determine based on the date of the post whether or not this is the most up to date practice. Not to mention the fact that this is real time, owners/keepers can go from theory to practice to publish and share within days. Something like that would take months in any other form of media.

But my point was to speed up the process of getting answers to those who need them. If everybody knew how to post and research then this would probably be unnecessary. However my theory about creating a section that allows non members to get pertinent questions answered in an expedited manner will remain just that, a theory. Having a debate about whether something will be effective without trying it, is like trying to teach a pig to speak english. It cant be done and just irritates the pig.

I joined this forum August 25, 2007 and I got my cherry head Oct 5th 2005....according to my records. This was not the only site I did any research. and I certainly did not speculate about whether I was doing the right thing.I belong to other forums too. I asked many questions on different forums and got different answers. Like I said I did a lot of research....I still do. I also asked different breeders and people with experience on husbandry for redfoots. If you go to other forums you will see very different advice on lighting...etc. As I said I don't know anything about other tortoises. I also wrote how confused I was with all the different advice I was getting, especially on lighting. Finally, I incorporated advice I got from different breeders and two years later I am still learning..... I do mostly follow the caresheets on Redfoots.com. This was probably the last forum I found to join. I think it was fairly new at the time I joined.
 

reptylefreek

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
415
Location (City and/or State)
Seatac, Washington
I do like the idea of having a little OPEN section for non members. But I dont understand why signing up would be a problem. You can veiw almost everything on the sight without being a member. Just not pix I thought. And we can encourage these people to hang around and sign up so we can give more info more frequently. I had a friend just recently tell me she wants to convince her husband to let her get a tortoise. I immediatly gave her this site and told her to read read read. She was asking what my tort Marlin was who is a sully. I kinda freaked out cuz she has two kids and I dont really agree on how she raises them and she doesn't really take the time out for the little things with them. I know how much work any tort is so I told her maybe she should start out with a smaller species. I also told her she has choices like a rescue, but she WANTS A BABY. Thats the part that makes me mad. The animal that is just a PHASE for people who cant have anymore kids. If you do it for the right reasons thats fine but I know she goes through phases. And because of an unfortunate financial situation I'm pretty sure their gonna be stuck in an apt for a very long time. Fine but not with a sully or leo or dessert.... I'm worried so I'm gonna do MY PART to make sure if she gets one that she has ALL the info she possibly can and help her so hers doesn't turn into a rescue, because I'm tapped out right now. I cant end up with another friends animal. Not until I get more space, and my boyfriend starts working again. I think we should also try to get some free advertising and tell pet stores about us and see if they can name drop when a turt or tort goes out the door so when someone joins its not just because of a life or death situation. Some of us have friends at pet stores. But thank god for all you guys, I really needed this site and it came along at a perfect time thanks to word of mouth by PEPPER.
 

Crazy1

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,068
Location (City and/or State)
Inland Empire, CA
We are considered a fairly young forum. We were 2 years old August of this year. So considering how many we have helped I think we have done a pretty good job for a young forum.

Though I think having an open thread, so non members can post is not a bad idea, what is to keep that guest from continuing to ask their questions without registering ever? There are reasons for a person to register, though I do not know all the logistics of the site. Livingstone I will post this question to the development team and administrator.

I agree we all have had moments when we tire of the same questions being asked. But I also know when someone post their tort is ill they are usually desperate and at wits end. When I find myself tired of those repeated questions I think back to when I began, and wish that help would have been at the tip of my fingers then. I know I would have done better and may not have lost a few.

I look at this forum as a place to help other keepers, old and new and to help my own torts with new ideas and information I get from other keepers. I also feel this is a place for like minded people. Those that don't think I'm crazy for feeling like I do about my torts. Those who understand that you can see personalities and have deep rooted feelings for a tort the same way you can for any other pet be it dog, cat etc. It gives me a place to talk about my torts & get feedback (and that doesn't mean always positive) and to listen to others about theirs. I feel of this forum and many of its members as if it is an extended part of my family. A community I am a part of. I would hope that each of us feels at least part of a community when on our forum.

Rob I have posted your suggestion for an open part of the forum for guests to ask questions.
 

Sudhira

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
253
Pepper said:
Some people don't even know these forums exsist. I ran accross them on accident. I would have never thought about there being forums for animals or reptiles. I like to research though. When I did run accross some forums I wasn't sure about joining one and didn't know which one to join- I just didn't know much about furums in general... I am now on about 8 or so forums and thats how I found which ones had the most people and best advice.
And I agree about the 1000 questions, it's better to keep trying to help where we can :)

What I got from the initial post, was not that "Livingstone" was against Newbie's posting, but that the whole idea of people acquiring/purshasing tortoise/turtles without knowing how to keep them, and how to keep them healthy.

In no way do I intend to insult any one else's philosophy, but it is MY practice and philosophy that if I cannot properly meet the needs of a "pet" that I acquire by providing the best environment and healthcare, then I should probably not acquire that living thing. Vet care IS expensive, and if one cannot afford vet care, then they might want to re-think stewarding a pet, especially and exotic one.

Please, these are just my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

I am grateful for the information shared on this forum. There are many ideas from which to glean information .
 

-EJ

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
983
Location (City and/or State)
Georgia
This is why herpers do not get involved with 'passionate' tortoise keepers.

I'm curious... how old are you... and how did you get started in this hobby.

(Danny... I wonder about you on a regular basis.)

Oh... to the OP... people don't respond well to a condescending approach.

...Wait a second... did you recently post on RFUK?

Livingstone said:
I am writing this post because I'm tired of reading about everybodies "X" month old sulcata that has a soft shell and isn't eating. There is something wrong with being able to buy a baby animal that is at its most vulnerable when keepers are just starting to learn. Breeders should raise the price of these animals to prevent them from getting into the hands of people who dont have a clue about how to care for a reptile. It makes me sick that on some sites it even states the tortoises below a certain size dont have a guarantee for length of time they may or may not live, or that they are sold for scientific purposes... I can think of nothing scientific about dying from dehydration, poor diet, lack of proper lighting or proper care.

If you own a tortoise and intend to raise it from a baby then please for the sake of the animal get the correct setup, do your homework, and remember by the time you can tell a tortoise is sick... its probably too late.

We've all read the posts in sulcata central... User has NEWB status and there first post is... My tortoise is sick. For those people, your first post should have been 5 months earlier when you were researching how best to care for the animal, not as its knocking on deaths door.

It makes me sick to picture a tortoise the same size as mine, dying in a fake environment, under a humming flourescent light, gasping for breath with bubbles coming from its nose, as it waits for its internal organs to shut down. Please close your eyes and try to picture that, then look at your tortoise and think, what if it had gone to a home where the owner had no idea how to care for it?

Dont let your tortoise be the poster child for your idiocy. These animals are the most difficult to care for when they are young. The younger they are the harder they are to raise and the more care they require.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts

Top