Please help Vinny-eyes and appetite

[Vinny and Ty]

Vinny is a Hermanns. I know his habitat is too small. I have read so much about light and heat and humidity that I don’t know what to take out or add. He is lethargic, barely eating, and has his eyes shut.

He has a water bowl, a dark spot, coconut husk substrate, the best I can do with food in the winter from the store, and pellets from the pet store. He has a long soak every day, but rubs his eyes. When he goes back to his house I put him near his food and he is interested. Almost immediately he starts rubbing his eyes , will take a bite and seems to chew for too long. I have too many things plugged in a 65W inc. flood bulb, a basking light from the pet store, a ceramic heater and a LED light for UV. From reading, I am frying his eyes. Temp is about 90 in 2 corners and 60% humidity. The other corner is 70 ish and good humidity. Lights off at 8:00pm except for ceramic heater. Lights on at 6:30am.

Please simplify for me. Thank you

 

[KarenSoCal]

The 65 watt incandescent bulb IS your basking bulb. Get rid of the basking bulb from the pet store right away.

You say "a LED light for UV". LED lights do not produce UVB, which is what you need.

Are you in Waltham MA? You need to buy a T5 HO UVB tube light. What % of UVB depends on how high the "ceiling" of his enclosure is. Measure from the height of Vinny's shell to the top of the enclosure, and post it.

This is the type of light you need. The 1st time you order, you need to get the fixture and bulb together. After that, you will only replace the bulb when needed.

Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit - 12% UVB Desert, 24 Inch (Bulb & Fixture) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084ZMW697/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Another thought...the coconut husk...are you keeping it moist for humidity? If it's dry, does it make a lot of dust? That could irritate his eyes too. But it's a good chance the UVB from the pet store is the culprit.

BTW, how old is Vinny?
And you said his enclosure is too small. If you post the measurements and some pictures, we might be able to help with some ideas how to enlarge it, or steer you to an enclosure that is bigger without breaking the bank.

 

[Lyn W]

Vinny is a Hermanns. I know his habitat is too small. I have read so much about light and heat and humidity that I don’t know what to take out or add. He is lethargic, barely eating, and has his eyes shut.

He has a water bowl, a dark spot, coconut husk substrate, the best I can do with food in the winter from the store, and pellets from the pet store. He has a long soak every day, but rubs his eyes. When he goes back to his house I put him near his food and he is interested. Almost immediately he starts rubbing his eyes , will take a bite and seems to chew for too long. I have too many things plugged in a 65W inc. flood bulb, a basking light from the pet store, a ceramic heater and a LED light for UV. From reading, I am frying his eyes. Temp is about 90 in 2 corners and 60% humidity. The other corner is 70 ish and good humidity. Lights off at 8:00pm except for ceramic heater. Lights on at 6:30am.

Please simplify for me. Thank you

Please post pics of your bulbs.

 

[Vinny and Ty]

The 65 watt incandescent bulb IS your basking bulb. Get rid of the basking bulb from the pet store right away.

You say "a LED light for UV". LED lights do not produce UVB, which is what you need.

Are you in Waltham MA? You need to buy a T5 HO UVB tube light. What % of UVB depends on how high the "ceiling" of his enclosure is. Measure from the height of Vinny's shell to the top of the enclosure, and post it.

This is the type of light you need. The 1st time you order, you need to get the fixture and bulb together. After that, you will only replace the bulb when needed.

Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit - 12% UVB Desert, 24 Inch (Bulb & Fixture) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084ZMW697/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Another thought...the coconut husk...are you keeping it moist for humidity? If it's dry, does it make a lot of dust? That could irritate his eyes too. But it's a good chance the UVB from the pet store is the culprit.

BTW, how old is Vinny?
And you said his enclosure is too small. If you post the measurements and some pictures, we might be able to help with some ideas how to enlarge it, or steer you to an enclosure that is bigger without breaking the bank.

Thank you.

I am not sure of his age. At vet, he weighed 500g and she said 6 years old? Saw the vet because of his eyes. I had just given him a soak, so he was great at the vet. He was given to me by a family that did not want him any more. He has a wooden Zoo Med Tortoise House 3’ x 2’. The height from his shell to top of cage is 8”. I ordered a stronger ceramic bulb for ambient temp esp since I should remove pet shop basking bulb. I am moving his house to a warmer room. I have had him for 2 years using the same bulbs (minus the 65W bulb), substrate and food since I got him. Why now? The picture of the ceramic bulb does show his cage and him. It looks dry. I misted it about 1 hour ago. I have a humidifier on next to his cage. Also I have been putting a piece of slate on the top to reduce water loss and retain heat. Today, he actually went to his bowl for food. I mashed up some pellets because he seems weak. Last night I gave him dandelion greens and he to s bit and chewed for a long time, swallowed with some effort and gave up.

Right now, I turned off both lights in the double bulb holder in the picture. He only has ceramic ambient bulb which is too small and the flood light bulb in the cage. I am going to soak him this morning. He has the closed space where his water is. It is moist in there. Chris’s info said to put dry straw in there. Now has moist coconut.

I had been allowing him to roam unattended, but have not done that for awhile. I did put him on the rug yesterday to walk around but I watched him the entire time. He does not walk around much in his cage. Prior to the onset of his current situation, he made a mess of his cage walking around. He is not a happy camper.

Jill

 

[KarenSoCal]

I had been allowing him to roam unattended, but have not done that for awhile. I did put him on the rug yesterday to walk around but I watched him the entire time.

Jill

Jill, what did the vet say about his eyes? Were you able to go to an exotics vet that is very knowledgeable about tortoises?

How long ago did you let him walk on the floor unattended? Torts will eat anything they find...metal items like screws seem to be a favorite. But if it fits, down it goes. Even dog/cat hair and dust bunnies are eaten, and torts are unable to cough like we do to expel foreign items.

Did the vet look into his mouth? I'm thinking he might have something stuck in his mouth or esophagus that is irritating that entire area. Other than rubbing his eyes, does he do anything like gagging or trying to vomit? Is his breathing easy?

I would suggest looking into his mouth with a bright flashlight. There is a way to get them to open their mouths, but I'm not exactly sure how.

We'll call in the experts on treating injuries and illnesses....
@Yvonne G
@zovick
@ZEROPILOT

 

[Vinny and Ty]

Jill, what did the vet say about his eyes? Were you able to go to an exotics vet that is very knowledgeable about tortoises?

How long ago did you let him walk on the floor unattended? Torts will eat anything they find...metal items like screws seem to be a favorite. But if it fits, down it goes. Even dog/cat hair and dust bunnies are eaten, and torts are unable to cough like we do to expel foreign items.

Did the vet look into his mouth? I'm thinking he might have something stuck in his mouth or esophagus that is irritating that entire area. Other than rubbing his eyes, does he do anything like gagging or trying to vomit? Is his breathing easy?

I would suggest looking into his mouth with a bright flashlight. There is a way to get them to open their mouths, but I'm not exactly sure how.

We'll call in the experts on treating injuries and illnesses....
@Yvonne G
@zovick
@ZEROPILOT

Thank you.

The exotics vet at our regular vet practice did not look into his mouth. As I had said before, after his soak and the ride to the vet in a box with a facecloth, he had perked up. The vet saw him a few weeks ago, and said he looked great.

We do have a hairy dog (Ty), and I have pulled strands of hair out of Vinny's mouth. When he ate the greens the other day, it looked like he was having trouble getting it to leave his mouth. I was relieved that he was showing interest in food, but the dandelion piece was on his tongue for too long. I was saying "Swallow it Vinny". He did swallow it, but it was not smooth. No coughing or vomiting. Breathing seems fine.

It has been about a month since he saw the vet. I have tried to change so many variables, that I am overwhelmed. When I had read that they had trouble digesting when the habitat was too cool, I did get the temp up, and he looked better. I also remember reading about swollen feet, I think his front legs looked puffing. They look much better. I took the LED UV light and he did not rub his eyes as much.

I am comfortable opening up my dog's mouth for a pill, but I have no idea how to open Vinny's mouth. Sounds like I should call Angell Memorial to see the exotics vet there.

Thank you again, and any other feedback would be welcome.

Jill (and Vinny)

 

[KarenSoCal]

I don't know where the other members are that I tagged. Do you have anyone besides Ty to help you with Vinny?

Let me try to find another member.
@Toddrickfl1
@TeamZissou

 

[Toddrickfl1]

You could try turning those lights off for a few days. Just use a regular lightbulb and the CHE and see if the eyes improve.

 

[Vinny and Ty]

I don't know where the other members are that I tagged. Do you have anyone besides Ty to help you with Vinny?

Let me try to find another member.
@Toddrickfl1
@TeamZissou

Ty is the dog with the fur balls!

 

[Vinny and Ty]

You could try turning those lights off for a few days. Just use a regular lightbulb and the CHE and see if the eyes improve.

By regular bulb, do you mean the 65W flood light in the cage?

Thank you,
Jill

 

[TeamZissou]

What you have for UVB is called a compact fluorescent bulb (CFL) and not an LED. In the past, CFLs have caused eye problems. Newer CFLs are supposedly OK, but still need to be set at a proper height so that the tortoise doesn't get too high of a UV exposure. So, two things could be wrong: you could have a bad bulb that is outputting excessive UV levels, or you could simply have the bulb too low over the tortoise. In any case, until you can get a Solarmeter 6.5 to measure the UV index (UVI) reading is about 3.0, turning the CFL off. He will be fine until you can get a new light and a meter.

As for the appetite, you most likely have it too cold for Vinny to be as active and eating as he is in warmer months. It's impossible to keep an open topped enclosure at a stable temp. You are at the mercy of the room/surroundings. It needs to be in the range of 75-80 F throughout the enclosure with a basking spot of 95-100 F for him to be at full activity. A lot of turtles and tortoises will slow down anyway in the winter and not eat as much.

Letting the dog and tortoise be around each other is a bad idea. There are many horror stories here on the forum of tortoises being killed by dogs, despite them 'getting along' for years.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Sticky: HERMANN'S TORTOISE CARE SHEET *UPDATED

Josh and I corresponded last week about making an updated version of the Hermann's tortoise care sheet since the old one we have posted here is a bit outdated and a little too brief in my opinion. So, here is the new one equipped with photos. Look out for the April 2015 issue of Reptiles...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Vinny and Ty]

What you have for UVB is called a compact fluorescent bulb (CFL) and not an LED. In the past, CFLs have caused eye problems. Newer CFLs are supposedly OK, but still need to be set at a proper height so that the tortoise doesn't get too high of a UV exposure. So, two things could be wrong: you could have a bad bulb that is outputting excessive UV levels, or you could simply have the bulb too low over the tortoise. In any case, until you can get a Solarmeter 6.5 to measure the UV index (UVI) reading is about 3.0, turning the CFL off. He will be fine until you can get a new light and a meter.

As for the appetite, you most likely have it too cold for Vinny to be as active and eating as he is in warmer months. It's impossible to keep an open topped enclosure at a stable temp. You are at the mercy of the room/surroundings. It needs to be in the range of 75-80 F throughout the enclosure with a basking spot of 95-100 F for him to be at full activity. A lot of turtles and tortoises will slow down anyway in the winter and not eat as much.

Letting the dog and tortoise be around each other is a bad idea. There are many horror stories here on the forum of tortoises being killed by dogs, despite them 'getting along' for years.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Sticky: HERMANN'S TORTOISE CARE SHEET *UPDATED

Josh and I corresponded last week about making an updated version of the Hermann's tortoise care sheet since the old one we have posted here is a bit outdated and a little too brief in my opinion. So, here is the new one equipped with photos. Look out for the April 2015 issue of Reptiles...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you. By waiting near his bowl this morning, I was relieved thinking he was ready to eat. However, he ate very little. I did not watch him eat thinking he may eat more without me there. His bowl looked full to me. I only gave him softened tortoise food - no greens. He likes it, but usually he eats plants.

I need to get the Arcadia bulb and fixture, a thermostat, a Solarmeter 6.5, the Mazuri LS food, a large closed enclosure (a bit later) and a clue. I have ordered a stronger ceramic bulb; his current one is a 15W. Vet? So many variables to consider. I though I had it with the increased temp, but not really it. A combo - I think. Yoda?

Thank you all.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

By regular bulb, do you mean the 65W flood light in the cage?

Thank you,
Jill

No, like a regular 40 Watt light bulb you would use in a lamp in your house.

 

[KarenSoCal]

Ty is the dog with the fur balls!

I know! That's why I put a funny face after I wrote it!

 

[KarenSoCal]

No, like a regular 40 Watt light bulb you would use in a lamp in your house.

What do you think about the difficulty chewing and swallowing? Maybe something stuck in his mouth or somewhere?

Do you know how to get a tort's mouth open to look with a flashlight?

 

[Vinny and Ty]

Vinny is in the hospital. He is severely dehydrated (he was soaked 15-20 min/day) and they thought his breathing was heavy. I posted earlier about the black mold under his house. It was suggested to get rid of it, but I did a cleaning and disinfecting. No mold visible but I think it was in the new substrate (my guess). I have not heard from the vet (he went last night).

He will be home tomorrow, I hope. His old cage is gone and I will need to use a terrarium for housing for awhile. I do not have it yet, but I will get it today. It is used because I cannot afford a new one. It is very tense in my house because of the cost of the care at the vet. No one else tends to him but me, so I have a greater attachment and I feel really guilty. I could not euthanize him nor could I have him rehydrated without knowing why he was dehydrated.

We are in the process of selling a house that we had been renting until we had to evict the tenant. Paying for mortgage etc for 5 months and still have college payments for one more son. In addition, I am on long-term disability for a few more months, but will not be able to return to work in my previous profession (teaching). Adding a vet bill of $1500 was the straw for my husband.

Before I return I would like some advice if possible. He has always had the coconut bricks for a substrate. Form spring to fall, all of his food comes from outside and in the winter, it is organic and varied. I have pellets that he eats periodically, but I will order the recommended pellets in the future.
1. What should I disinfect the aquarium with and how should I do it?
2. Since I do not know the size yet, this may be hard to answer. I am picking up a 100W ceramic bulb today, and I have a clamped cage, not enclosed. Is that ok? Until I order the Arcadia build, should I just focus on the heat and the humidity?
3. What do I do to prevent it from becoming a greenhouse? I probably will have a fishtanks lid with a bulb in it. I have seen three sides of a tank painted black or does that do anything at all?
4. I have read the care sheet and got another from the vet. He is seeing an exotics vet. He will have a new cuttlefish bone. Suggestions for vitamins?
5. I had a 65W flood lamp for the basking build, but someone posted that I should be using a 40W regular light bud. I though I had read flood light, but I probably made it up. If you wouldn't mind clearing that up for me too? Depending on the size I may need more or less heat , but for now...
6. What am I missing?
7. I have fewer than 20 hours to get the tank, clean it, set it up (hopefully tonight), get Vinny at the crack of dawn, then go to New Hampshire which has ice and sleet build up to get ready for a hut/shed sale on Sunday.

Thank you all for piping in in the past and hopefully finding this and giving me some advice. I have read the beginners mistakes and made changes, but I have a sick Vinny, so advice, at least for the next few days would be helpful.

Jill

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Sorry to hear Vinny is @ the vet, but hopefully they can help him out. . .
As far as your questions . .
1. - For Mold on hard surfaces, 2 oz bleach to 1 Quart of water, should sanitize the surfaces. . . wash & rinse
2. - Yes. Is the 100w ceramic bulb a Ceramic Heating element? if so it should be ok, and YES, at this point in time, concentrate on Heat & Humidity. . If you have an infrared temp gun, use that to determine how close the heat source should be away from Vinny. You want the mid 80°'s to low 90°'s and 80% Humidity. Follow the Care sheets provided earlier in this thread. and what TeamZissou had mentioned in post #11
3. - Green house is kinda good at this point, warm and humid.
4. - Vitamins are not needed that much with the right diet, but calcium supplement are, I use Fluker's Repta Calcium. and it doesn't take much.... a sprinkle every couple of days....
5. - The 40w bulb or there abouts should be fine....Off at night.
6. - What are you missing . . . ? a thermostatically controlled outlet on the CHE. so that it doesn't overheat Vinny, (in addition the the infrared temp gun.)
Substrate I use is Orchid bark (Fir) Med or Fine...
Solarmeter's are pricey, but if you can get the t5 HO UV bulb set up they give you a rule of thumb on the height placement that should get you into the ball park.
Sayin prayers for Vinny . . ?

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Thermostatically controlled outlet, something like this....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HXM5UAC/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[KarenSoCal]

The issue of the 40 watt bulb was this...
We have been trying to address the problem of Vinny's sore eyes, along with his other issues. In post # 8, Todd suggested turning off your bulbs in use, and placing a 40 watt bulb instead, just for a few days. It would have shown if your lights were causing the eye issues.

Torts can get by without UVB for an extended time. Don't worry about it for now. Get your tank set up with proper heat/humidity. We'll address UVB when the time comes. Use the flood bulb and CHE for now.

Do you know if the vet is doing x-rays to rule out a foreign body?

 

[TaylorTortoise]

I don't know where the other members are that I tagged. Do you have anyone besides Ty to help you with Vinny?

Let me try to find another member.
@Toddrickfl1
@TeamZissou

Karen,
What do you mean by do you have anyone besides Ty to help with Vinny?