Please tell me if this enclosure is adequate

[PEEEETE]

Pépe is my first tortoise that I've raised from a hatchling, and I'm having kind of a hard time getting the ideal enclosure setup. I initially had him on all Alfalfa Pellets shown below...

Then after reading a great write up on here, switched to Coconut fiber (I think that's what it's called) from the pet store that is sold in the compact brick, since that holds moisture, and he loves to burrow in it at night. Pictured below.

Well, I took him in to the UC Davis small/exotic animal clinic and the Doctor recommended that I not use the Coco bedding since he sometimes eats it, or at least bites at it. I've noticed that he usually does this when he starts getting hungry, but never for long periods of time, only a few nips here and there.

Her suggestion was to just do an absorbant base like wood chips, with basic sheets of newspaper on top, so he doesn't eat the bedding. She did say, however that his hide are should have the coco fiber for burrowing. Here is the new setup...

I'm not super satisfied with this setup, it seems very tedious for upkeep, and if he still wanted to eat the coco fibers, he can. Also, he nips at the wet paper edges sometimes too!

I guess what I'm asking is... until he gets bigger and smarter, so as not to eat whatever he sees on the ground, what are my options to keep him humid enough, and safe?

Thanks in advance for the info!

 

[dmarcus]

You should take out the news paper not doing much good. You might wanna also start thinking about a bigger enclosure because your little one is going to out grow that small space very fast..

 

[PEEEETE]

I agree, I will be building a long enclosure for him within the year. I know I have some time before he gets much bigger, so I want to take my time and build something that he can be happy in for the next 3 years or so, before he becomes an outdoors Tortoise.

So newspaper is unnecessary, what about the issue of him wanting to eat the coco coir?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Pete:

Sometimes if a vet doesn't actually keep tortoises, they really can't give you good info on how they should be set up.

I'm gonna' lay it on ya, but please don't think I'm picking on you.

1. Your aquarium is too small
2. Ditch the newspaper. Its too slippery for baby legs to get good traction and may cause hip problems
3. As long as the baby is well-hydrated, eating the coco fiber won't harm him.

If you have trouble keeping it moist and humid, you can partially cover the top to keep the heat and moisture inside, but please, seriously consider buying a larger tub. A lot of us use plastic storage bins. Cheap and large!

 

[dmarcus]

I agree with Yvonne, and a Sulcata will get big faster than you think.

 

[ascott]

I am jumping on....please take no offense

The little baby can see straight through all of the walls, I believe it is okay to have a part he can peek through (unless he begins to go crazy trying to get out) the newspaper is icky all the way around and that hide is cool and all but I would scrape that stuff off of the outside and he can chew on it and also bad for his eyes as he passes...as well as that is round enough to encourage the daredevil in a young tortoise ,,,,if he tries to climb it ...plop over he can go (here I am taking a breath )

I am not knocking the vet,,,,not on purpose anyways, okay maybe a little....does she realize that tortoise do not read the paper, and that is the only true function it has in the enclosure...as Yvonne said, slip and slide and causes stress on the little developing baby as well as it is really kinda ugly to look at

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Pete: You'll find we are pretty outspoken here on the forum, but we have your tortoise's best interest at heart and none of us mean to offend you.

(rubs hands together in glee) besides, its nice to have someone new to pick on!

 

[PEEEETE]

No need to apologize, everyone. I had my reservations about this current setup as well. I'm willing to try anything though as long as the suggestion came from an informed source.

My main concern was him eating the Coco coir. As long as you hatchling owners have seen it be OK for them, I'm OK with that.

He stays very hydrated and so does his bedding. I mist him multiple times a day, and soak him once every other day, or more for about 20 minutes in warm water. The tub will be getting a big upgrade very soon, I'mn eager to build him something impressive with opaque walls, and plenty of roaming room, along with a moisture box like some of the more impressive enclosures I've seen on this forum.

The log hide is too steep in the exposed side for him to get up now, and he's never bit at the bark on it. He does however climb up the straight walls sometimes and flips over. Luckily there isn't much time during the day that no one is home to watch him. Whenever I'm home, I let him walk around the house (while I supervise) so he gets plenty of exercise and gets to scratch his curiosity itch.

Again, I'm eager to learn from the pros (you guys) and I'm definitely willing to change things. I just want him to be healthy and happy.

 

[ascott]

We want you and your tortoise to have a long and happy life together....which I believe is what we all strive for

 

[Robert]

I actually enjoy a glass terrarium for my leopard hatchling. It allows me to see him and monitor him at all times while also allowing me to keep better control of humidity and temperature. I have never noticed my hatchling attempting to scratch the glass or attempt to escape. The key is having it large enough so that they have adequate stimulation within their enclosure.

Pete, it seems that with each change you make your setup is improving, and that is great. Keep working on it and keep asking questions. The more info you get the more knowledge you will have to figure out what works best for you and your tortoise. I am always trying to improve my enclosures. Keep up the good work.

In the last picture it is nice to see him outside. Have you thought about building an outdoor enclosure?

 

[Tom]

I'm a little late, but I wanna chime in too. I've been using coco coir as my main baby substrate for several years now. I've had 7 CA desert tortoises, 8 regular leopards, 36 South African Leopards, and countless sulcatas (all of these were hatchlings) on it and have not had a single problem with it. To keep him from eating it, keep a plate of something more appetizing in there all the time for him. Spring Mix or Santa Barbara Mix is great for this purpose. I like to feed it on upside down butter tub lids. The little lip keeps the food on the plate, but the little hatchlings can get over it pretty easily. There is also nothing wrong with orchid bark either. I've been using that one for 20 years on all sorts of reptiles.

Next is your water bowl. Its too slick. No traction. The dimensions are okay and its not too deep, but if they can't get a grip, they will sometimes avoid it. Terra cotta plant saucers from Lowes have worked really well for me and they are cheap. You can use them for a food bowl too, if you like.

I really don't have a preference between glass tanks, plastic cement mixing tubs, plastic storage bins or stock tanks. They all work well. Building something is what I used to do, but since I started with all the moisture and humidity a few years ago, I have found waterproof containers much better and easier to work with. There are several methods for building something out of wood and making it water tight, but I prefer to just buy something that is already ready to go. Either way, I think its unanimous that you need something bigger.

Given your excellent attitude and eagerness to make Pepe's life the best you can, I'm sure you and he will have a long happy life together.

..... Now then, Did the vet mention the importance and benefits of direct sunshine? ... okay. That will be another thread...

 

[ascott]

Nice Tom....oh and I want in on the new thread for your last statement....oh, oh, oh me pleeeez LOL

 

[PEEEETE]

Pete, it seems that with each change you make your setup is improving, and that is great. Keep working on it and keep asking questions. The more info you get the more knowledge you will have to figure out what works best for you and your tortoise. I am always trying to improve my enclosures. Keep up the good work.

In the last picture it is nice to see him outside. Have you thought about building an outdoor enclosure?

Thanks Rob! I take him for walks around my front yard every other day or so, and he is directly next to the window which gets plenty of sun through the day, some of which is direct. But I also have a UVB tube bulb for all day use. Nothing beats good ole California sun though! When I am settled into a more permanent location, I'll build him something for outdoors. I'm in a rental now that I will be moving from in November.

---

I'm a little late, but I wanna chime in too. I've been using coco coir as my main baby substrate for several years now. I've had 7 CA desert tortoises, 8 regular leopards, 36 South African Leopards, and countless sulcatas (all of these were hatchlings) on it and have not had a single problem with it. To keep him from eating it, keep a plate of something more appetizing in there all the time for him. Spring Mix or Santa Barbara Mix is great for this purpose. I like to feed it on upside down butter tub lids. The little lip keeps the food on the plate, but the little hatchlings can get over it pretty easily. There is also nothing wrong with orchid bark either. I've been using that one for 20 years on all sorts of reptiles.

Next is your water bowl. Its too slick. No traction. The dimensions are okay and its not too deep, but if they can't get a grip, they will sometimes avoid it. Terra cotta plant saucers from Lowes have worked really well for me and they are cheap. You can use them for a food bowl too, if you like.

I really don't have a preference between glass tanks, plastic cement mixing tubs, plastic storage bins or stock tanks. They all work well. Building something is what I used to do, but since I started with all the moisture and humidity a few years ago, I have found waterproof containers much better and easier to work with. There are several methods for building something out of wood and making it water tight, but I prefer to just buy something that is already ready to go. Either way, I think its unanimous that you need something bigger.

Given your excellent attitude and eagerness to make Pepe's life the best you can, I'm sure you and he will have a long happy life together.

..... Now then, Did the vet mention the importance and benefits of direct sunshine? ... okay. That will be another thread...

Thank you for your insight, Tom. Before I joined the site, I spent a lot of time lurking and reading old material, yours included, and aI really respect your opinions. I have heard about the the terra cotta lids, but the source I had said that they needed to be glazed, which seems weird to me, since that would make it very slippery. Pépe doesn't avoid his water dish now, he actually like to climb the backside, since it's oblong in height on the edges. I do want to get something with a slightly lower side height though for him since he's a daredevil and likes to flip himself over on stuff.

I'll stick to enclosure questions in this thread only, and save the other ones I have for you breeders/owners for another thread (cuz I have a lot of them!)

 

[Tom]

Pete, I don't want to harp on you, but over time we see the same things happen over and over again, and they are tragedies that could have easily been avoided. I'm telling you these things in an effort to be helpful so that you avoid pitfalls that I and others have repeatedly fallen into.

1. Windows and screens filter out any usable UV. A tank near a window can also easily over heat. I'm betting that you are already watching those temps, but you are not getting any UV that way.

2. Florescent UV bulbs are not effective in my opinion, despite what the manufacturers and sellers claim. The coil type ones can actually damage their eyes. Please don't use the coil type. Mercury Vapor Bulbs are much more effective and cheaper in the long run.

3. Your outdoor excursions are great. That's a fantastic way to get some sun (UV), exercise and grazing. But mark my words, it might be a month. It might be two months, but you will lose your focus on him for "just a second", and he will disappear. When you realize he's gone, your adrenaline will surge, your heart will start pounding and you will nearly panic. I don't want this to happen to you. Even for a renter, there are cheap, portable, easy way to build a safe outdoor enclosure and avoid disaster. Here are a couple of ideas, but there are millions of other ways to do it too.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Cheap-Easy-Simple-Sunning-Enclosure#axzz1UvdpPJ8O
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Sunning-Enclosure#axzz1UvdpPJ8O
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...ut-Safe-Outdoor-Baby-Enclosures#axzz1UvdpPJ8O

I hope this all helps.

 

[Jacqui]

I have heard about the the terra cotta lids, but the source I had said that they needed to be glazed, which seems weird to me, since that would make it very slippery.

I use the glazed ones myself for the water dishes on some of my tortoises and then unglazed for food dishes... but then I seem to do things different then most on here.

 

[PEEEETE]

Thanks for those link, Tom. Do you think that a concrete mixing tub would be better for indoors than what I have now? I think I'm going to get one for an outdoor setup for now, until I know what my next place will be like.

And I suppose I will return my tube bulb in exchange for a MV bulb, if that really is better. Are those usable as basking lights as well? I haven't heard much about the MV bulbs in specific.

Another question I have, is about the temp inside my tanks log hide. I have one of the stick-on heating pads on the outside of the tank, butted up to the open end of the log hide, so it always stays pretty warm in there. And right outside the opening is the basking light, while the other side of the tank is cooler and has the water, if he really wants to cool down. Is there a better way to keep heat in the tank than the heat pads they sell at pet stores? If I change out to a non-glass or plastic tank, then those wont work at all.