Possibly Adopting, New to Torts

[Something Typical]

Hello, this is my first time posting here. I've been doing a little bit of research on Russian Torts because I might be adopting 2, but I thought I would post my questions here since this seems like the place to get all the right info

About the two torts:
Apparently they are both female and have been raised together in a 50 gallon enclosure
They are roughly 7 years old (at least that's how long the owner has had them)
If I adopt them, they come with the tank and all the lamps, etc.

I do have some concerns, as I do not want to accept responsibility without be fully prepared (I'd hate to disappoint or screw something up).

1. I want to know more about expenses. How much do you roughly spend on them in a month? Or a yearly basis?
2. The lamp thing is a little fuzzy for me. Could you explain the difference between what UVB and UVA (is that what the initials are?) and how often do you change them? What are the costs of these?
3. How often do you change their cage fully? Do you also daily pull out excrement or weekly? Etc.
4. From what I've read so far, rooming two together is a bad idea? If I get them, should I separate them? Do I need to look in to different housing?
5. Could you tell me about the smell? Right now I have a hamster who does not smell at all, and a mouse who smells quite powerfully. My family is not a huge fan of stinky animals.
6. The person who owns them now lives in a different state than myself. Will a 4 hour transportation be too stressful?
7. Where do you typically house your torts? As in living room, kitchen, etc. Are they animals that need high traffic or low traffic areas? How are they with dogs (barking, not interacting)?

I think those are my main questions so far. I will say I live in Iowa, so I don't think I could keep them in an outdoor enclosure (it is rainy and often humid. Temperature ranges from 80-100 in the summer. Winters typically 10 degrees F and sometimes drop below 0). Any links to my questions or any answers are much appreciated.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Seems to me the stressful part of the whole thing is, 2 LONER adult tortoises are living in an aquarium that is too small for one. Russians don't normally get along too well, and he will give her dementia from his constant harassment for sex. I really don't mean any respect, and am very glad you have found us. Please ask all the questions you want. But first thing everyone will say they need a bigger enclosure. Welcome.....
They don't smell to me. I clean all the poop as soon as I see it. I have a couple of box turtles who are living in the same substrate since I moved here 10 years ago. I spot clean and add fresh orchid bark when I can,....

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

It would be much cheaper and easier on both you and the tortoises if you set them up outside in a large, safe pen. Then in the winter they will hibernate. That way you don't have to worry about UVB or UBA or heat or whatever. As long as they're warm, the rain won't matter. But when it's cold the rain might be a death sentence.

1. Initial set up is the most expense - lights, etc. But if you harvest weeds from the yard, you won't have much of a food bill
2. Here's a good explanation our member Chadk wrote: "UVA and UVB are not the same. This may help:


****************************************

"Full-Spectrum" Hype
"Full spectrum" lights which look like incandescent light bulbs are incandescent light bulbs and so are good only for producing heat. They do not produce any UVB. Tungsten filament technology cannot produce UVB. The use of the term "full spectrum" is grossly misleading. Any pet store that tells you they produce UVB is either completely ignorant or lying to you to make a sale.

UVB (Ultraviolet B) and UVA (Ultraviolet A)
The only lights that can safely provide these two critical wavelengths to your diurnal reptiles are the UVB/A producing fluorescents made for the reptile pet trade. (Note: for the problems associated with the use of screw-in compact fluorescents, please see my comments in the UV Table article referenced below.)

Fish/Aquarium and plant "grow" lights-incandescent and fluorescent-do not produce UVB. Tanning salon fluorescents, tubes made for phototherapy for humans, germicidal UV tubes, and mercury vapor lights, all of which produce UV, do so at levels that are unsafe for the reptiles and their keepers. Many of these produce very high levels of UV and are designed to be used for very limited periods of time and require that protective eye gear be worn (and to my knowledge, despite the availability of ponchos, sombreros, and motorcycle jackets, no one has made UV resistant goggles for iguanas yet....).

Some of these lights also produce UVC, that range of wavelengths (< 290 nm) known to cause immune suppression and cancer in humans and animals. UVB producing fluorescents that produce a decent amount of UVB (1-5%) aren't very bright (have lower CRI) - bright UVB producing fluorescents (high CRI) do not produce much UV; that is a tradeoff required by the technology itself. So, when using a UVB producing fluorescent, you should be using a white light emitting incandescent as well - this will give your diurnal reptiles both the UV and the bright light they need. A list of UVB producing fluorescents can be found at the end of the UV Table article in the Ultraviolet section Captive Environment page. See also the new article by William Gehrmann, Reptile Lighting: A current perspective which includes a table of tubes.

CRI - Color Rendering Index
Those of you who are bothered by low interior lighting or who get somewhat grumpy or depressed on cloudy days, but who find life wonderful indeed on bright, sunny days or in well lit rooms, are responding to the difference that low CRI and high CRI make - the higher the Color Rendering Index (CRI), the better things look to us.

Importance of UVA
Humans and reptiles alike see into the visible light range (400-700 nanometers). Reptiles and many other animals (but not humans) can also see into the UVA range (320-400 nm). UVB producing lights also produce UVA. UVA subtly affects the way things look to a reptile, from the color of their food to the color of their bodies. To us, male anole dewlaps look reddish - to another anole with sufficient UVA, however, they are brilliant, radiating, flaring red. The tongue of a blue-tongue skinks looks, to us, like the skink has been eating a basket of blueberries. To another blue-tongue skink, however, the tongue is a bright, fluorescent, day-glo pink. Failure to provide UVA to diurnal reptiles can causes subtle stress by altering the reptile's perception of its universe and how it responds to it. This can be crucial if you are thinking about breeding them or keeping them around for the length of their natural lifespan...

UVB (290-320 NM), of course, is critical for the formation of the chemical which ultimately is transformed by the animal's body into vitamin D3. D3, as the articles on calcium and metabolic bone disease tell us, is critical for the proper uptake and metabolization of calcium in the body.

Twisted Products
Some of the long fluorescent tubes come with a twist in them. This serves to increase their surface area and so they are brighter (and presumably emit somewhat more UVR) than the straight versions. These twisted UVB-producing fluorescent tubes, such as DuroTest's PowerTwist, are fine to use for reptiles. Compact UVB-producing fluorescents, however, are inappropriate for most herp enclosures as the UVR disperses so quickly over distance that larger reptiles receive too little UVB and will develop MBD. These compact lights, which are attractive as they screw into an incandescent-type fixture and take up less space, may be safe for reptiles whose adult size is small, say, no larger than the smaller anoles. Note: not all compact fluorescents are intended to produce UVR for reptiles. If you are buying one specifically to try on a small reptile in a small enclosure, make sure you buy one made specifically for this purpose."

3. I don't change substrate. I spot clean.

4. You might be able to keep them together, but be watchful for trouble. They can live together outside much easier

5. If you keep the substrate clean a tortoise doesn't smell

6. No

7. If they can't see out of their habitat, outside influences don't seem to bother them.

 

[Tom]

Hello, this is my first time posting here. I've been doing a little bit of research on Russian Torts because I might be adopting 2, but I thought I would post my questions here since this seems like the place to get all the right info

About the two torts:
Apparently they are both female and have been raised together in a 50 gallon enclosure
They are roughly 7 years old (at least that's how long the owner has had them)
If I adopt them, they come with the tank and all the lamps, etc.

I do have some concerns, as I do not want to accept responsibility without be fully prepared (I'd hate to disappoint or screw something up).

1. I want to know more about expenses. How much do you roughly spend on them in a month? Or a yearly basis?
2. The lamp thing is a little fuzzy for me. Could you explain the difference between what UVB and UVA (is that what the initials are?) and how often do you change them? What are the costs of these?
3. How often do you change their cage fully? Do you also daily pull out excrement or weekly? Etc.
4. From what I've read so far, rooming two together is a bad idea? If I get them, should I separate them? Do I need to look in to different housing?
5. Could you tell me about the smell? Right now I have a hamster who does not smell at all, and a mouse who smells quite powerfully. My family is not a huge fan of stinky animals.
6. The person who owns them now lives in a different state than myself. Will a 4 hour transportation be too stressful?
7. Where do you typically house your torts? As in living room, kitchen, etc. Are they animals that need high traffic or low traffic areas? How are they with dogs (barking, not interacting)?

I think those are my main questions so far. I will say I live in Iowa, so I don't think I could keep them in an outdoor enclosure (it is rainy and often humid. Temperature ranges from 80-100 in the summer. Winters typically 10 degrees F and sometimes drop below 0). Any links to my questions or any answers are much appreciated.

Everyone will have a little bit different take on these matters. Here is mine:
1. Expenses can vary greatly depending on how they are housed. Expect to spend a few hundred dollars on proper indoor and outdoor enclosures. If you grow or scavenge your own food, that will be free. If you keep your house above 60ish you will only need a basking bulb for heat which will be cheap to run. If your tortoises get enough sunshine, you won't need indoor UV.
2. The simple answer is to run a ZooMed Powersun over each enclosure, or a tube type florescent bulb along with a heat lamp. There is more info in the care sheets that I will link at the end of this post. Don't let the pet store talk you into the coil type screw in bulbs for UV. They sometimes burn tortoise eyes.
3. As needed. If you soak regularly, they usually poop in the soak. If not, just remove any poop as you see it and clean up leftover food each night.
4. You have read the right stuff. Yes. They should be separated and housed individually.
5. Tortoises have very little smell associated with them. The actual tortoise won't have any smell, and the substrate would be similar smelling to a potted plant in the house.
6. No. They get shipped cross country all the time.
7. Doesn't matter. Put them wherever it is most convenient. They don't care about barking dogs, but be aware that the nicest, best trained most lovable dogs will still maul a tortoise given the chance. Be sure you don't give them the chance indoors or out, and don't let your guard down because the dogs seem to ignore the tortoises for months or years on end. I think you already understand this, but due to the catastrophic damage that is possible, its worth emphasizing just to be extra safe.

Check these out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Pearly]

Seems that you've got your questions answered I'd just throw in there that if you were thinking about getting a pet tort and now can get all the set up free, go for it! The biggest expense to me was the initial set up (enclosure, lights, all the gauges, substrate etc). Then you only have the maintenance, change the bulb and feed them, plus biggest expense-vet care if you get a sickly animal or make serious errors in your husbandry. I think travel time will no doubt be stressful to the animal, and they may sulk for a couple of days after arrival, but nothing that warm temps, warm soaks, nice warm dark hide, fresh water and good good available wouldn't fix.
Good for you for doing your homework now! Very wise!
Good luck! And keep us posted!

 

[Something Typical]

Thank you, everyone, for your answers. I think I still need to do a lot more research, but this did clear up quite a bit of my worries. It mostly sounds like the enclosure itself would be the biggest change and expense. If I end up adopting them, I will probably post pictures and have more questions on hand!