Potential death of another Sulcata

[Holly'sMom]

Awe I'm so sorry! I thought they were doing better ....

 

[kennrocks]

This is just a guess here, but I would say that the problem was probably more dehydration then diet. And just from what I've read with people with this experience, the damage was done before you ever got the little tortoises. You changed your practices as quickly as you learned about it. That's all anybody can ask. Keeping tortoises is a constant learning experience.

Did you feed any grocery store foods high in oxalates? Like endive, collard greens, luttice? That can cause bladder stones and that looks like the problem you had here.

Im knew also w tortoises so I'm not sure how much help this will be but I've noticed our little one gets finicky w eating too. I'll either get some fresh food set up (sometimes adding baby food like squash pumpkin&apple or carrots, clovers and dandelion leaves from outside, moistened small tortoise mazuri, or thin slices of pumpkin to the normal greens she's eating) then I'll take her outside for even 5mins. Bring her in and set her on the food and she may only takes few bites and walk away but 75% of the time she'll go to town. Also I noticed the lower my temps were the less she eats. My thermometers were saying it was 105F when the infrared thermometer says its 90F also I try to give a variety of different store bought and fresh bought/grown foods it seems like she would get bored w the same greens and grassland food like we wouldn't want to eat the same dinner everyday, so I feed them all on different days w different greens and grasses View attachment 186773

I give kale, bok choy, pumpkin and collard greens (every once in awhile) but staple would be primary kale and bok choy. I do try adding Mazuri but this little fighter keeps scraping em out and picks the veggies with less Mazuri mixed on it. I usually soak them till they are in a disgusting texture, chop the leaves finely and mix well. Another local breeder/seller suggested to blend Mazuri into a powder form and sprinkle onto the veges (which I didn't have the opportunity to try )

She did deposit urates when I had her until suddenly she stopped and I suspected the stone got too big. I do provide a water dish which I check almost every 3 hours to refill with filtered water. And not to forget the 2 soaks I do every single day. Also, I will mist her enclosure to keep humidity at atleast 80%. So it really frustrates me what could've gone wrong and that I've murdered 2 innocent baby sulcatas

 

[Fredkas]

It is weird when we have done everything right but the problem is still exist. That bladder stone shock me. How come?
Maybe the breeder should be put into questions.
However, i think you should start researching about nutrition facts about each every veggie you gave. When you sort it all out and have a balance one, try adopt one or two. And share it with us.
I like your passion, like your effort, and will always support you.

 

[kennrocks]

It is weird when we have done everything right but the problem is still exist. That bladder stone shock me. How come?
Maybe the breeder should be put into questions.
However, i think you should start researching about nutrition facts about each every veggie you gave. When you sort it all out and have a balance one, try adopt one or two. And share it with us.
I like your passion, like your effort, and will always support you.

I will get one next year. still abit painful and unwilling to replace them. Will maybe aim for a 4 inched sulcata. Even at that size, might possibly develop prior circumstances. Sigh. Will just keep eyeing out for good local breeders. I can confirm that most breeders in Malaysia are irresponsible and import from overseas. It's not really legal here unless you apply for a license for your tort and even so you need it to be from a verified licensed breeder. Which is hard to come by.

 

[Fredkas]

I will get one next year. still abit painful and unwilling to replace them. Will maybe aim for a 4 inched sulcata. Even at that size, might possibly develop prior circumstances. Sigh. Will just keep eyeing out for good local breeders. I can confirm that most breeders in Malaysia are irresponsible and import from overseas. It's not really legal here unless you apply for a license for your tort and even so you need it to be from a verified licensed breeder. Which is hard to come by.

This is another problem. If they are irresponsible, i think you should get one with 3inches. 4 inches will be too long in the breeder hand and the tort maybe already accummulate (is it the right spelling?) Some possible illness.
But from this forum thread and Tom's researches, Sulcatas will pass their first life crisis if they are able to reach 50gr.
From the information i gather, that should be around 6cm/2.5inch.
Lets say you believe others in your country not giving the tort good condition, then you should get the tort as soon as possible.
Lets say you want to be safe, then you should get 2.5inch and 50gr above sulcatas.
To sum all this up: get 60+gr and 3 inch sulcata (the safest i think). Then you can observe the pyramiding (they already have enough growth line for you to observe). If it is pyramid, then possible bladder stone is high (dehydration). You want one with non or slight pyramiding.

It just my newbie's suggestion, i maybe wrong but at least you have a little idea. Hope it is usefull.

 

[DandR]

I've been following every step and am very sorry to hear this. You did everything within your power and at your disposal to save your babies. It's heartbreaking. I'm no expert, but by the size of the stone, it seems as if it was there, or at least developing, before you even got her.

Please don't give up, especially since you have this forum as a great resource.

 

[algoroth1]

Kennrocks- I keep a manouria emys emys (brown mountain tortoise) which came from Vic Morgan who helped spearhead their captive breeding. He has mentioned on this forum that kale, while high in calcium, is also high in oxalates which keep the calcium from being absorbed. I don't think there is any problem with collards and I don't know about endive. I also don't know if the kale problem is specific to manouria or would apply to sulcata as well. Might be worth looking into. All the best.

 

[Holly'sMom]

Did you happen to pay with PayPal or a credit card? When you bought the tortoise

 

[Clawem]

There is so much bad info on the internet about raising sulcata's. Before I found this site I was raising mine dry. By dry I mean I even used a dehumidifier in their enclosure. I can only thank Tom and everyone else on this site for giving me the correct info. The only thing I did right was giving them grass and weeds to eat. They are now 4 years old growing like weeds and doing great. I was just lucky I did not have any health problems hopefully following everything on this site I never will.

 

[Sue Ann]

UPDATE:

Got her to the vet. Doc found abscess in her mouth. Which is why her mouth is hung open. Was prescribed with saline to flush and antibiotics for the infection. Hope she survives

Doc also suspects the cypress mulch might be mixed into her food as she likes walking all over them, causing the infection. Wondering whether i should transfer to newspaper sheets as bedding for the time being. Any comments?

I am a strong believer in orchid bark fine soil by Black Gold. I have it 2-3 in deep and my Sully loves to burrow in it.

 

[Bee62]

I give kale, bok choy, pumpkin and collard greens (every once in awhile) but staple would be primary kale and bok choy. I do try adding Mazuri but this little fighter keeps scraping em out and picks the veggies with less Mazuri mixed on it. I usually soak them till they are in a disgusting texture, chop the leaves finely and mix well. Another local breeder/seller suggested to blend Mazuri into a powder form and sprinkle onto the veges (which I didn't have the opportunity to try )

She did deposit urates when I had her until suddenly she stopped and I suspected the stone got too big. I do provide a water dish which I check almost every 3 hours to refill with filtered water. And not to forget the 2 soaks I do every single day. Also, I will mist her enclosure to keep humidity at atleast 80%. So it really frustrates me what could've gone wrong and that I've murdered 2 innocent baby sulcatas

Kale, Bok Choy and collard greens are no good tortoise food for every day feeding. They are all much too high in goitrogens and oxal acid. Please read here:
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=529&c=8
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=231&c=8
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=529&c=8

Too much of this food can cause bladder and kidney stones.

 

[Yvonne G]

I totally agree with what Bee62 has said. These foods are ok occasionally, but not to use as a staple